Naval Artillery Dummy Shell Refurb!

[Larry$]

The fuse markings most likely are for timing used as anti aircraft. A very long time ago I spent my midshipman cruise on a destroyer that had 5" main guns. The timer fuse was set by the fire control system and started it's time when the gun fired. The 5" guns could fire 50 rounds a minute. For practice an airplane would pull a big fabric sleeve on a long line. Never thought I'd want to be that pilot. The fire control system was totally mechanical. High on the ship there was a maned turret that would visually track the target. It was linked to the "mechanical computer" and that was linked mechanically to the gun mount. The computer kept track of the roll and pitch of the ship and would fire the gun as the motion of the ship passed through the calculated spot. The computer was a beautiful collection of brass gears, differentials, pendulums & cams. The ship had been built in the 1950s and electronics didn't hold up well the the impact pounding of the guns. The super structure was aluminum and the welds would break from the gun shockwaves. In rough seas the ship rolled 45 degrees to each side. More fun than a roller coaster.

 

[Superburban]

The fuse markings most likely are for timing used as anti aircraft. A very long time ago I spent my midshipman cruise on a destroyer that had 5" main guns. The timer fuse was set by the fire control system and started it's time when the gun fired. The 5" guns could fire 50 rounds a minute. For practice an airplane would pull a big fabric sleeve on a long line. Never thought I'd want to be that pilot. The fire control system was totally mechanical. High on the ship there was a maned turret that would visually track the target. It was linked to the "mechanical computer" and that was linked mechanically to the gun mount. The computer kept track of the roll and pitch of the ship and would fire the gun as the motion of the ship passed through the calculated spot. The computer was a beautiful collection of brass gears, differentials, pendulums & cams. The ship had been built in the 1950s and electronics didn't hold up well the the impact pounding of the guns. The super structure was aluminum and the welds would break from the gun shockwaves. In rough seas the ship rolled 45 degrees to each side. More fun than a roller coaster.

So how did the control system set the fuse? The old mortars had to be set manually. Then they adopted the proximity fuse, which is a marvel in itself. One of the inventions that changed WWII.

I have seen some documentaries on some of those mechanical control systems, they are mind blowing to think how they work. Similar systems were used on the subs to set the torpedo paths. As the sub turned, they would change the setting on the torpedo so it was ready to be fired all electro/ mechanical, I don think there was much electronics in them.

 

[Weldo]

Reminds me of the line of chrome plated 3inch ones that lined up on the quarter deck while in port. Also there was an ashtray made out of a 8 inch powder casing. This hung around the various fire control areas for a long time and it seems as no one used it or cared for it. Therefore I was sorely tempted to take it with me when I was discharged. However the thoughts of getting caught with it at the gate served as a deterrent to my thievery endeavor!

Hahaha, sounds tempting indeed!

 

[Weldo]

The fuse markings most likely are for timing used as anti aircraft. A very long time ago I spent my midshipman cruise on a destroyer that had 5" main guns. The timer fuse was set by the fire control system and started it's time when the gun fired. The 5" guns could fire 50 rounds a minute. For practice an airplane would pull a big fabric sleeve on a long line. Never thought I'd want to be that pilot. The fire control system was totally mechanical. High on the ship there was a maned turret that would visually track the target. It was linked to the "mechanical computer" and that was linked mechanically to the gun mount. The computer kept track of the roll and pitch of the ship and would fire the gun as the motion of the ship passed through the calculated spot. The computer was a beautiful collection of brass gears, differentials, pendulums & cams. The ship had been built in the 1950s and electronics didn't hold up well the the impact pounding of the guns. The super structure was aluminum and the welds would break from the gun shockwaves. In rough seas the ship rolled 45 degrees to each side. More fun than a roller coaster.

That’s really cool stuff, man! Thanks for sharing! It’s incredible what’s possible via mechanical “computation”. Weren’t the bomb sights on the WWII bombers a similar thing?

 

[Larry$]

So how did the control system set the fuse?

I no longer remember but I assume it was done electrically. It had to be fast considering the rate of fire of just over one second per shot. There were two ammo hoists to each turret/ barrel. Loading took place from each side of the gun alternating, all automatic. Not as fast as a 600 rounds per minute machine gun but a 5" is a wee bigger. The rounds looked just like a very large riffle round.

Much of the ammunition, bombs etc. that were used during the 60s (Vietnam) were left overs from WW2. There were problems with hang fires. Rounds that failed to fire and then could cook off in the barrel. Bombs that were without the safety devices latter incorporated. See the Forestall fire information.

The carrier I was on got ordinance highlined over every 3rd day from supply ships. It would be stacked in the hanger bay until it could be moved to the magazines. In rough seas it was a risky operation. I saw a load of rockets hit the side of the aircraft elevator and scatter fuel across the deck. Lucky there were no sparks. Bombs were final assembled on the forward mess deck in order to keep up with the rate of use. That meant that almost 5000 men had to be fed from 2 lines on the aft mess deck.

Everything was being pushed to its limits. We were on station doing air ops for 3 months, then into Hong Kong for one week of R&R (It was called I & I in the NAVY.) Then back on station for another two months. So we were at sea 5 months with only a one week break. Had another 4 months to go before getting back to the US. The ship repair shops were very busy! Never had enough repair parts.

 

[Weldo]

Interesting stuff! I’d have never imagined when I posted this little project that there would be some guys who actually handled the real deal!

Were the 5” shells in huge brass casings? Some of the bigger guns load the projectile first followed by charges of powder, don’t they?

 

[Larry$]

Were the 5” shells in huge brass casings?

Yes, they were just like over sized riffle ammunition. Yes, the rally big guns would ram the projectile into the barrel and then bags of explosives. The "powder" for a 16" was large molded pieces designed to produce a relatively slow even burn rate. It takes time to accelerate a 2000# projectile. Each "grain" was about 7" long and 1 1/4 " diameter with holes molded in lengthwise. As the burn from the outside reduced the amount of surface area burning, the burn from the inside increased the burning area.

 

[Superburban]

Much of the ammunition, bombs etc. that were used during the 60s (Vietnam) were left overs from WW2. There were problems with hang fires. Rounds that failed to fire and then could cook off in the barrel. Bombs that were without the safety devices latter incorporated. See the Forestall fire information.

In Desert Storm, most of the artillery and mortar ordinance we hauled, had dates from the 40's to the 60'sDid not check all, but hardly saw any 70's, and the only 80's I saw was MLRS pods.

The carrier I was on got ordinance highlined over every 3rd day from supply ships. It would be stacked in the hanger bay until it could be moved to the magazines. In rough seas it was a risky operation. I saw a load of rockets hit the side of the aircraft elevator and scatter fuel across the deck. Lucky there were no sparks. Bombs were final assembled on the forward mess deck in order to keep up with the rate of use. That meant that almost 5000 men had to be fed from 2 lines on the aft mess deck.

Amazing how much it takes to support an operation. I was a company commander for a transportation company, our trucks never stopped from Oct, to May. Mostly hauling ordinance, and MRE's

Everything was being pushed to its limits. We were on station doing air ops for 3 months, then into Hong Kong for one week of R&R (It was called I & I in the NAVY.) Then back on station for another two months. So we were at sea 5 months with only a one week break. Had another 4 months to go before getting back to the US. The ship repair shops were very busy! Never had enough repair parts.

Some individuals got breaks, but as a company, we worked from when we landed, until the day before we flew back to the US.

 

[Weldo]

Cool stories, fellas! I always appreciate hearing first hand accounts of stuff like that. Stuff that they don't really report on and most people have no idea about, so thank you for sharing!

Yes, they were just like over sized riffle ammunition.

That's what I was looking for when I found this wooden dummy round! I'm guessing a 5" brass casing isn't something to be found on the civilian market.

 

[Ischgl99]

That’s really cool stuff, man! Thanks for sharing! It’s incredible what’s possible via mechanical “computation”. Weren’t the bomb sights on the WWII bombers a similar thing?

Yes, the Norden bomb sight was a mechanical computer. Carl Norden was the creator of the bombsight, and he took on Theodore Barth as his business partner. They were the founders of Barden Bearings, which was created to supply high precision bearings for the bombsight. They have an original bomb sight in the lobby of their factory.