Monarch 10ee

Thank you all.

I may be closing in on it. I took the collet chuck off and apart and cleaned it in the solvent tank. While it was off I again checked the spindle runout internally. No detectable runout with the Intrapid. Put the collet chuck on and checked it. Runout of about .002. Put the ground precision rod it. Turned by hand. Same problem 5-6 thou over eight inches.

Off with the collet chuck and on with the 3-jaw. Put the aluminum bar back in. Skim cut makes it look good, very little runout over 8".

I've been working on this for two hours and need a break. I'll get back later to take another cut. Right now I'm thinking the collet chuck may be the culprit. However with the 3-jaw and dog I'm not cutting close to the tailstock as I was with the collet chuck.

To be continued...
 
OK back at it after a short Harley ride to blow the stink off.

Took two more skim cuts. Dead on over 6". I'm calling it good. I do think the accuracy was dialed in because I was not getting close to the headstock where the problem was occurring and was not using my collet chuck. I'm going to use 3 and 4 jaw chucks for work of any length. Might just use the collets for very short work and buy a new collet chuck.

Any ideas on a good four jaw? My three jaw is a Buck.
 
It came with a 8" Norton or similar 4 jaw chuck. Personally I like my 6" Bison better, easier to handle and grips smaller stuff better. I believe Grizzly has or had in recent past good prices on Bison. To save some bucks you could get a Shars, they stand behind their stuff and its okay. If you want a nice collet chuck look for a Hardinge Sjogren 5c or 2J. There is not much that can go wrong with them The atlas copy now available is way to expensive, I picked up a used Sjogren for $275 recently, hold a thou or less, and its a speed chuck. Conversely if you don't need a speed chuck you can get a budget CDCO 5 c chuck with plain back, buy their back plate, bore it out 20 thou, and set it up with set screws for a budget set tru collet chuck for around $200 total, or get bold and drop the bucks on a set tru collet chuck from Bison, but hold on to your wallet they have really gone up in recent years.

michael
 
Soft Jaws are EXTREMELY useful on the 10EE. Get a chuck with replaceable jaws and learn to do any work that needs to be dead nuts on center with them

BTW, "dead nuts" is an official engineering term. The notation is done by drawing a pair of nuts with an arrow through them

dead nuts.jpg
 
Last edited:
So some suggestion below. Two of the chucks I use are the Bison 5C set tru and their 8" combination chuck, both require backing plates. You could also use a direct 5C, would need a plain back D1-3 backing plate, but at that level the set tru for a few dollars more is probably a better choice. If you only use 5C occasionally, then the Atlas chuck mounted 5C may be worth considering. On the 4J, most have very wide and rough jaws, which I find does not work well in a number of clamping situations. The Bison combination chuck has narrower jaws at the tips (0.2") and clamps very well, then a few seconds to tweak the independent jaws to get the last few thousandth dialed down to zip. Be aware of the speed limitations of these chucks. I think Ajax and Quality Machine Tools has some of the best pricing on Bison chucks. I wouldn't go with Gator, I have used some of their chucks, but recent posts have indicated significant defect issues. Buy a cheap chuck when your chasing accuracy, do not expect much.

One thing to note on 5C collets and clamping, the collets can vary a bit more on TIR compared to something like an ER system, and if the stock being held is a tad under or over the collet size it can clamp quite irregularly and exacerbate the TIR.

Pratt Burnerd Front Hand Wheel Quickie 5C Collet Chucks D1-3 PB23-D3 http://www.prattburnerd.com/detail.php?p=CC&l=CCL&m=QFH
Chuck mounted Quick Change 5C Collet Chuck Atlas Model No. COL5C http://www.prattburnerd.com/detail.php?p=CC&l=CCL&m=QC5
Bison 5C Set Tru Collet Chuck, will need a D1-3 set tru backing plate http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/bisettrucoch1.html

Bison Independent Lathe Chuck - 8" D1-3 Mount, 4-Jaw 7-853-0833 http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/biinlach8d1m1.html
Bison Scroll Chuck - 8" Plain Mount, 4-Jaw 7-848-0800 http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/biscch8plmo4.html
 
Again thanks to all.

I chucked the axel back in between centers. Two skim cuts in and out. Off maybe half a thou over 11'. Is that dead nuts or ti-- on?
 
Matt, those numbers are good enough for most humans and if you mention tenths to most job shops they roll their eyes and say nobody machines to that. Like I said before and you can confirm for yourself the factory spec is half a tenth over x number of inches, 6, 10, 12 I forget. IMO better than 3 or 4 tenths is only necessary on small diameter fits, shrink, press or slip and hi precision die work, or pins for nuclear weapons triggers which is what the 10ee did a boatload of in the early 1940s. If you are happy, what the rest think is meaningless. Myself, I constantly kick my self for buying a machine that I knew could only hold 3 tenths on small diameters, <1/2". If I could have been lucky or looked longer I could have gotten more accuracy. Why does it matter to me, when I build small engines its tough for me to hold a tenth or two on 1/8" valve stems. My answer was to buy a second machine from Taiwan, a definite price point machine, it can do the work but its not near as much fun to operate and was not designed like the EE was. As you likely have read in old literature, their goal was to make a machine for the best machinist in a precision shop to operate all day long and not complain about surface finish, smooth operating controls, controls located in fatigue free locations. If you get your machine dialed in to a accuracy level that you can understand for repeatable performance, and you can live with be very happy, you are driving a cross between a Ferrari and a Rolls Royce. Not too dusty for what you paid.

On another note regarding chucks, you could always buy a good 4 jaw and a small quality 3 jaw that you could hold in the 4 jaw, pretty much cover everything a hobbyist would need as long as you don't want to do repetitive work with speed and accuracy. I have a friend who for years before getting an EE ran a Wade toolroom lathe, a very fine lathe, and he used a 4 jaw with a Sherline 3 jaw that fit in it and did work most people can only dream of.

Congrats on your progress
michael
 
I am enjoying the progress being reported on the 10EE. I picked up a 0ld 10EE for basically scrap price last year. Mine is a 1939 model with a Sundstrand drive. Between the drive and the end cover being missing, nobody but me was dumb enough to take it on. I was fortunate enough to locate a similar era cover and taper attachment from a machine that was being scrapped. The drive had stopped running about ten years ago and was then rebuilt to full function. The owner retired shortly after and the lathe has been parked since. I am just now starting the process of cleaning her up and plan to drain and replace the fluid in the drive. The ways appear to be pristine still. It is reported to me that this one was the personal machine of the company owner.

We'll see. I wanted a 10EE and don't see how I could have possibly gotten into one any cheaper. A gentleman reasonably close by has a Sunstrand 10EE that is operational and has offered to let me examine his machine and to offer any help that he can provide. I am going to try to save the old girl but if that is not possible, I'll locate another down the road when finances allow. Right now I have two lathes in my shop, a very nice USAF Heavy 10 and the 10EE which is still in the clean up stage. It is my hope to pick up a Mori or Whacheon gearhead in the near future, this would also satisfy my occasional need to turn metric threads.

Please keep the progress reports coming on your machine. I learn something from every post and thread that I read on the forum.
 
mksj said:
So some suggestion below. Two of the chucks I use are the Bison 5C set tru and their 8" combination chuck, both require backing plates. You could also use a direct 5C, would need a plain back D1-3 backing plate, but at that level the set tru for a few dollars more is probably a better choice. If you only use 5C occasionally, then the Atlas chuck mounted 5C may be worth considering. On the 4J, most have very wide and rough jaws, which I find does not work well in a number of clamping situations. The Bison combination chuck has narrower jaws at the tips (0.2") and clamps very well, then a few seconds to tweak the independent jaws to get the last few thousandth dialed down to zip. Be aware of the speed limitations of these chucks. I think Ajax and Quality Machine Tools has some of the best pricing on Bison chucks. I wouldn't go with Gator, I have used some of their chucks, but recent posts have indicated significant defect issues. Buy a cheap chuck when your chasing accuracy, do not expect much.

One thing to note on 5C collets and clamping, the collets can vary a bit more on TIR compared to something like an ER system, and if the stock being held is a tad under or over the collet size it can clamp quite irregularly and exacerbate the TIR.

Pratt Burnerd Front Hand Wheel Quickie 5C Collet Chucks D1-3 PB23-D3 http://www.prattburnerd.com/detail.php?p=CC&l=CCL&m=QFH
Chuck mounted Quick Change 5C Collet Chuck Atlas Model No. COL5C http://www.prattburnerd.com/detail.php?p=CC&l=CCL&m=QC5
Bison 5C Set Tru Collet Chuck, will need a D1-3 set tru backing plate http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/bisettrucoch1.html

Bison Independent Lathe Chuck - 8" D1-3 Mount, 4-Jaw 7-853-0833 http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/biinlach8d1m1.html
Bison Scroll Chuck - 8" Plain Mount, 4-Jaw 7-848-0800 http://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/biscch8plmo4.html
Click to expand...

I can get this same chuck from MSC for $527.25 free shipping. Ajax wants $745+shipping. I'd rather have a 6 inch but I think I'll go with the eight at this price.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top