Mike's CNC G0704 - Block 4 Upgrades

The data sheet for the Quikrete non-shrink precision grout you mentioned says it withstands 9500 PSI after the recommended three days of damp curing, up to 14000 PSI after 28 days. Seems like a great choice to me for transfering loads.

If I'm thinking right (always dubious) then compression is all that matters on the sides. Since I'm suggesting (three large) bolts on the back side, I don't think tension on the back or shear on the sides matters much. I suspect the shear and tensile strength is much lower, but I'd still cut channels or drill pockets for it to flow into on the sides and back. The rougher the texture, the stiffer I'd think.
 
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Taking a quick break from the column discussion, I was able to assemble the spindle motor with the new pulleys configured for 10,000 RPM at the spindle.

Quick Video (kind of loud, beware). In person, it is fairly comfortable to sit next to without any hearing protection. Could easily have a conversation without raising my voice.


Overall, this works great! However, there is still some work to be done before it is ready to use. Known issues are:
  • Spindle overheats for the following reasons
    • Lower angular contact bearings need reduced preload
    • Upper 6007 and 6209 bearings not rated to 10k rpm. May need to be swapped.
    • Spindle stack is under pretension (not intentional). When it heats up, tension increases significantly which in turn increases heating.
    • Spindle top hat applies pretension to bearings - new spindle pulley is thicker than old one. Belleville disc spring would be a better solution.
  • Smaller pulley (22T) has nearly 5 thou of runout. I know my machining was true to the pulley pitch face within 0.0003" TIR so this is due to the spindle shaft itself. The upper bearing stack should support the spindle to minimize this runout, however the small pulley OD is too small to interface with this surface. Needs to be remade.
  • Gear teeth on upper bearing assembly (originally driven by stock G0704 motor) make a lot of noise when spinning through the air at 10,000 RPM. These should be machined off since they are now unused.
  • Need small disc machined to properly set the seating depth of the larger pulley (44T) on motor shaft
 
Gave the spindle conundrum some more thought...

I put together a section view drawing (easy in CAD) and labeled all the components of the spindle assembly. The full assembly drawing is attached as PDF. It was still a bit hard to see, so I colorized a section of it in MS paint.

The issue I am fighting is excessive bearing heating at high speed, slightly from the lower bearings, but especially from the upper bearings. Once the spindle is hot (130*F or so) the rotation is moderately stiff indicating to me that the thermal expansion is applying tension to the entire bearing stack. Once at room temperature, the stiffness returns to normal.

This design ran fine at 5000 RPM, settling to 110*F. This equated to ~100-150W of heat loss in bearings and is acceptable. The current configuration is losing 600W+ of heat into bearings once they start binding up.

Here are the labeled components:
  • Purple – Quill Housing, originally slid in the casting, now held in place by locking screw and top hat (light blue)
  • Orange – Angular contact bearings, loaded back to back. Note, the model has the bearing and shaft fits incorrect, but they are correct on the machine.
  • Dark Blue – Spindle
  • Yellow – Drawbar, slides inside spindle, held under tension from spring stack
  • Red – Deep Groove radial ball bearings
  • Green – Upper bearing shaft, fixed in location by casting and bearings, originally had female spline to drive torque to spindle, now only provides radial support at top
  • Pink – Spindle pulley, locates against top of upper bearing shaft (green) and held in place by spindle top hat (light blue). Keyed to spindle (dark blue)
  • Light Blue – Spindle Top hat, threaded rigidly onto spindle. PDB pulls against this while compressing drawbar and spring stack. Holds pulley (pink) in place. Retains entire lower spindle assembly (dark blue, purple, orange) into casting.

Spindle Section View Colored.png


I spent a while trying to understand exactly how this grows thermally, and I think I finally understand it. It is important to understand that the Coefficient of Thermal Expansion (CTE) of cast iron is roughly 3.8 uin/in *F and steel is roughly 9.6 uin/in *F depending on alloy. What this means is that for every *F increase, steel will grow 3 parts for every 1 part that cast iron does. This is really important in understanding the growth in the stack.

In the diagram below, I labeled the major heat producers (the upper bearings in red) with a little campfire icon. These bearings are dumping heat into both the attached shaft (green) and the casting (white hashed). Two things cause a disadvantage: the iron casting is large and sinks heat away easily, and the shaft (green) is fairly thermally insulated and is steel. This means the green shaft can heat up substantially and grow far more than the cast iron housing. The lower bearing (red) is seated against a shoulder (indicated by the lock icon) and can move no further in this direction. This directs all the thermal growth upward (to the right) pushing the pulley (pink) tightly into the top hat (L. Blue). This top hat is rigidly connected to the spindle (D. Blue) and cannot move. This applies a ton of tension on the spindle shaft pulling the spindle upward. Since the lower spindle assembly (D. Blue, orange, purple) and the upper spindle assembly (red, green, pink) are separate components and have a gap between them, the force is transferred through the bearings, into the cast iron housing and back through another bearing.

The force is indicated by blue arrows along the bottom of the image. The spindle (D. Blue), is pulled upward against the lower AC bearing (orange). This pushes the quill housing (purple) into the housing (white). The force is then transferred through the lower radial bearing (red) which is seated against a shoulder, into the upper shaft (green), through the pulley (pink), and finally into the top hat (L. Blue).

The thrust force on the lower radial bearing (red) is really bad for it, reducing life and creating additional heat which makes the problem worse.

1690375714822.png

Other known problems:
  • Deep groove bearings (red) not rated for >5000 or >7200 (couldn't find the exact answer) rpm.
  • Pulley (pink) is a bit thicker than old pulley. Top Hat (L. Blue) clamps more firmly to this pulley, increasing spindle pre-tension.
  • Retention of lower spindle assembly (Purple, orange, dark blue) is a poor design, but I’m stuck with this setup since this was a manual machine converted to CNC.
  • Deep groove bearings experience some axial loading, even though they are only designed for radial load.
  • Spindle is not balanced for 10k rpm.
Planned solution:

I will machine a new spindle adjuster nut. This is the white disc between the upper AC bearing (orange) and the lower radial bearing and spindle tube (red and green). Currently this component only is used to tension the AC bearings in the lower assembly and does not contact the upper assembly. In my modified design, the nut is thicker and will contact the inner race of the upper AC bearing (orange) and the upper spindle tube (green). This creates a continuous path of contact for the forces created by the top hat (L. Blue) and thermal expansion without going through any bearings. This should permit the radial bearings to experience only radial load, and the AC bearings to experience only their preload plus any small amount of tension increase due to thermal expansion at the lower assembly which should be small since both the shaft and housing are steel and should expand at similar rates. Parallelism of the opposing faces of this nut, as well as perpendicularity to the thread pitch diameter are critical.

1690385249921.png

Other solutions I’m considering:

  • Replace bearings (red) with hybrid or full ceramic bearings which can take the speed with grease lubrication. Cost is prohibitive from what I’ve seen. AliExpress does not have hybrid bearings in the 6209 size.
  • Adjust preload on AC bearings (orange) to reduce heat at higher speeds.
  • Re-machine pulley (pink), top hat (light blue), or install spacer between top hat and spindle (dark blue) to reduce tension on bearing stack.
  • Replace entire upper bearing assembly (green, red) with new custom housing, shaft, and bearings. Goal is to use smaller diameter bearings which can handle 10k rpm with grease. New assembly would press into the existing bearing bores in head casting.
Solutions I’d rather not consider:
  • Replace entire spindle with better design.
    • Too much work, cost, and the head casting design is very limiting to the diameter that can be passed through.
    • Replacing head casting too complicated and costly.
    • Honestly, at some point it makes more sense to buy a new machine
  • Active cooling
    • No good place to implement, asymmetrical cooling would cause distortion.
  • Reduce speed below 5000 rpm or limit duty cycle.
  • Oil lubrication of bearings.
    • Spindle is open and oil lubrication would be messy and lose oil without recirculation.
 

Attachments

  • Spindle Section View.pdf
    199.4 KB · Views: 4
Upon more thought I'm changing up the plan.

I'd rather not replace the spindle adjuster ring since I'd have to disassemble the spindle to measure the mating thread and likely kill the bearings in the process. They're not super cheap and assembling them is a royal pain. I'm also counting on lots of little fiddly bits to all fit and thermally expand just how I expect which is unlikely to happen. Finally, the upper bearings are still going to get too hot and need to be replaced. I found no affordable off the shelf bearings which can handle 10,000 rpm with grease.

My new plan is to replace the upper bearing assembly with a custom assembly which will solve several problems.

1690906816643.png

This new assembly has the same overall dimensions as the existing upper assembly and will gently press into the bearing seats in the head casting. The assembly has a steel outer shell, a steel inner shaft, 2 radial ball bearings, a number of helical snap rings (for better balance), and a special feature discussed below. By sizing down the bearings, I was able to reach a limiting speed on the assembly of 12,000rpm with no active cooling. The central bore is now smooth and a snug sliding fit to the spindle shaft to support it from radial loading from the belt, and there is a polymer spline disc to permit torque transmission to this assembly and eliminate rattle. This assembly freewheels with no load so little torque is needed. If anything binds or jams, the thin polymer spline disc can shear.

1690907783096.png


I've included features to permit installation of an RLS incremental magnetic ring encoder and read head into the design. Should I ever wish to have direct spindle feedback for rigid tapping (if the servo encoder isn't good enough) then this would do the trick. The installation routes the encoder cable inside the mill head casting cavity and can be easily routed through the cable chain to the column. Only downside is that these encoders are moderately expensive and as such I would wait to install one until the need arose. But, now is a great time to implement the design for one.
1690907072206.png

1690908421895.png

Both the shaft and housing are fairly complicated components with several bearing fits and precision snap ring grooves. They were also both designed to be able to be produced in a single operation to limit the runout to an absolute minimum.

The final design change would be to add a snap ring groove to the spindle itself just below the pulley. Rather than the top hat squeezing the pulley into the upper bearing assembly and creating this mess, the pulley would simply be squeezed between the top hat and snag ring on the same shaft. Thus, no axial load would be placed on the radial bearings at all. The upper bore of the assembly shown above would be a transitional fit to the pulley hub OD to support it for minimal radial runout.

Here is the entire assembly with the spindle, pulley, and top hat.
1690909154348.png

And a fresh colorized section view where:
  • Spindle - D. Blue
  • Pulley - Pink
  • Pulley keys - Grey
  • Top Hat - L. Blue
  • Upper Assembly Shaft - Orange
  • Upper Assembly Housing - Purple
  • Bearings - Red
  • Snap Rings - Yellow
  • Spline Disc - White
  • Encoder Magnet Ring - Green
1690909366602.png

And a quick detail quarter section showing the pulley sandwiched between a snap ring (yellow) and the top hat (L. Blue).

1690910118485.png

Cost of all components and stock materials would be ~$160, not counting the encoder.
 
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You're wayyy past my pay grade.
Well this all works on paper, but we have to see if it actually works in practice!

Honestly I'm doing all this because I'm putting off working on the scraping. And I'm putting that off because I don't want to make a decision on the column reinforcement lol.
 
It feels like you want those upper deep groove bearings to be able to float axially WRT the spindle group. Maybe as a pair.
It sounds like that's where you are headed?
You can grease your spline assembly for damping rattle. Maybe even vacuum grease?
Don't forget you could have rotating parts in cast iron to null out some expansion.

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk
 
It feels like you want those upper deep groove bearings to be able to float axially WRT the spindle group. Maybe as a pair.
It sounds like that's where you are headed?
You can grease your spline assembly for damping rattle. Maybe even vacuum grease?
Don't forget you could have rotating parts in cast iron to null out some expansion.

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk
Correct. Right now, they get put into slight axial loading due to the spindle assembly tension, but then lots of tension with the extra heating. My updated design both downsizes the bearings to handle the higher speeds, and decouples the upper spindle assembly (which is only needed for small radial support for the belt and vibration) from the lower spindle assembly which has back to back angular contact bearings.

I'm hopeful that the bearing heating will be minimal in this design and thermal expansion does not need to be considered.

I can grease, but I'd be willing to bet it would be slung outward at these higher speeds. In my new design, the inner tube which slips over the spindle with as little clearance as I can manage to make. Hoping a few tenths. The polymer disc is just to prevent relative rotational motion between the parts, but otherwise allow them to thermally grow past eachother.
 
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