Looking for Sanford MG-612 Surface Grinder owners

[kevin]

My spindle had just a bit of light rust on it - more of a tarnish really. I cleaned it up with a brief application of Scotchbrite (Very Fine).

My Sanford MG (Ser. # 1561323 M) has an non-standard taper, and I'm still looking to find someone else whose machine has the same taper. I'm also curious to see if machines made in different years had different tapers. I'm assuming the MG serial numbers follow the same patter as Sanford SG serial numbers (http://www.lathes.co.uk/sanford/), which would mean my machine was made in 1956 (the first two digits are the year of manufacture, unless the first digit is is 1, in which case disregard the 1).

projectnut - that would confirm your machine serial number 1544039M was made in 1954.

 

[projectnut]

Correction from my last post. There are 3 spring loaded oilers on top of the column. One for each of the ways the wheel assembly moves on, and one over the large miter gear.

Like Kevin I also used a very fine (blue) Scotchbrite pad to remove the rust from the spindle and hub. As for the toothed washer, my current hub has only a single tooth, not two as in the link Bob provided. I'm not sure if the hub I have came with the machine is the original or an after market one. It does have right hand threads for the nut holding the wheel to the hub. I would think this arrangement would be better suited for a machine that has a counter clockwise wheel rotation. About the only ones I know that do are the old Delta Toolmakers. I've never used one, but I've always wanted one where the head could be swiveled for odd size pieces

Here are a couple pictures of the top of the column with the oilers. The manual recommends 10W oil for all the various oils.



ON EDIT: I was just reading through the manual and realized the hub on my machine is not original unless it was a special order. The manual states the nut holding the wheel should be turned clockwise to remove it. This means it would have left hand threads. My wheel retainer nut has right hand threads.

 

[kevin]

projectnut -

I'm still thinking that those oilers may have been added later by a previous owner. I took another close look at the column cover for my Sanford MG and do not see any indication that there were ever any oilers in the top (no oilers, no holes visible inside or out, no sign of holes that have been plugged). I have heard the theory before that it is better not to oil/grease these gears because it just traps grinding grit and increases wear; the fact that these gears are essentially fully enclosed by the column cover might support that idea, but I'm not sure I buy it. On the other hand, if the vertical feed gears on my machine have been lubricated at all in the last 50 years, I don't see any sign of it. The Harvey LG "copy" of the Sanford MG has oilers on top, so Harvey must have thought it was a good idea; I'll probably add some eventually, but another few months isn;t going to make a difference.

I assume you are looking at the manual that is posted at http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/Sanford/ regarding lubrication and the recommendation to use 10W (machine oil I assume, not motor oil). I had a lengthy discussion with another Sanford MG owner on this topic, and I think we both decided to use Vactra 2 way oil (or any ISO 68 way oil; emphasize way oil, not machine oil). I came to this decision after looking at the Grizzly manual for their (somewhat similar) surface grinder: http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-12-Surface-Grinder-w-Stand/G5963 (the manual is here: http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g5963_m.pdf

The 7/8" hex spindle nut on my machine has LH threads. Another Sanford owner I traded email with has a machine with a standard spindle taper of TPF=3",and also has the same LH spindle nut. So far I only have a bit of information on 5 different Sanford MGs - not near enough yet to get an idea of what was standard for the machines, and how that may have changes over time (all the machines I have info on are from the 1950s). The one Harvey LG I have info on has a TPF=3" with a LH thread spindle nut.

 

[kevin]

Here's another bit of trivia for Sanford MG owners. A company called Micromech Mfg. Corp. made a machine based on the Sanford MG (which leads me to believe Micromech may have acquired Sanford assets when it went out of business); picture below. You can see more pictures of the machine here: https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Ma...omech-Mfg.-Corp.-Surface-Grinder/12160170004/

The machine is listed as a "surface grinder", but it was actually marketed as a wafer cutting machine (which explains the otherwise odd spindle design in the pictures).

 

[projectnut]

projectnut -

I'm still thinking that those oilers may have been added later by a previous owner. I took another close look at the column cover for my Sanford MG and do not see any indication that there were ever any oilers in the top (no oilers, no holes visible inside or out, no sign of holes that have been plugged). I have heard the theory before that it is better not to oil/grease these gears because it just traps grinding grit and increases wear; the fact that these gears are essentially fully enclosed by the column cover might support that idea, but I'm not sure I buy it. On the other hand, if the vertical feed gears on my machine have been lubricated at all in the last 50 years, I don't see any sign of it. The Harvey LG "copy" of the Sanford MG has oilers on top, so Harvey must have thought it was a good idea; I'll probably add some eventually, but another few months isn;t going to make a difference.

I assume you are looking at the manual that is posted at http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/Sanford/ regarding lubrication and the recommendation to use 10W (machine oil I assume, not motor oil). I had a lengthy discussion with another Sanford MG owner on this topic, and I think we both decided to use Vactra 2 way oil (or any ISO 68 way oil; emphasize way oil, not machine oil). I came to this decision after looking at the Grizzly manual for their (somewhat similar) surface grinder: http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-12-Surface-Grinder-w-Stand/G5963 (the manual is here: http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g5963_m.pdf

The 7/8" hex spindle nut on my machine has LH threads. Another Sanford owner I traded email with has a machine with a standard spindle taper of TPF=3",and also has the same LH spindle nut. So far I only have a bit of information on 5 different Sanford MGs - not near enough yet to get an idea of what was standard for the machines, and how that may have changes over time (all the machines I have info on are from the 1950s). The one Harvey LG I have info on has a TPF=3" with a LH thread spindle nut.

Just the designation SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) leads me to believe the manual is referring to motor oil. I have had this discussion with retired engineers formerly employed by Sheldon, Gisholt, Cincinnati, and Kearney & Trecker. Almost to a person they feel current day motor oils are far better than the machine oils recommended from the 1940's thru the 1960's. I have even had the person from Sheldon recommend replacing all formerly recommended machine lubrication oils with current day SAE 10W-30. I have followed their recommendations on all of my machines. I do still have a couple gallons of Vactra #2 way oil I use on the milling machines, but other than that I use current day single or multi viscosity motor oils. I've had some of the machines over 20 years with no ill effects. In that time I would guess most machines have run an average of 10- 15 hours per week. Some weeks it's far more, some weeks it's far less. There have been times when I was trying to complete big jobs and either a lathe or one of the mills has run over 60 hours. Now that I'm a little older I don't care to work that long or hard.

 

[Andy Pullen]

Hi All,
I picked up a Sanford MG grinder from a machine shop "yard sale" a couple of weeks ago. There were 2 of them there. Thankfully, my coworker that attended the sale with me got the other one. Each machine went for $50. Attached is a photo in the shop it was in. The wiring was pretty much shot on both machines and the belts were coming apart like $2 suits.
I don't know anything about the previous owner. It was a little tool and die shop in a former industrial neighborhood in Baltimore city. I never would have known the place was there otherwise.
The machine got a once over when I got it home and the majority of the accumulated dust and crud was scraped and brushed off.
I found a new belt on eBay and replaced the power cords on my machine. Turns out the starting capacitor on my motor was bad. That was replaced yesterday and the motor now is fine. But, the spindle barely turns over when the motor is turned on. Gotta take the spindle apart next and make a decision on the bearings.
The wheel guard is on the machine. My coworker has the chip guard for the left end of the table.
I'm looking forward to running this little machine. There's no room in my shop for anything much bigger.
Andy Pullen

 

[kevin]

projectnut -

With regard to lubrication, I'm a complete novice when it comes to surface grinding, so I bow to your superior experience.

Andy - got your email to me, and glad to see you joining us here. I look forward to seeing more pictures of your machine (and your co-worker's too, if possible). When you take the spindle appart, I hope you will take lots of pictures!

To anyone else who happens to find this discussion, I'm trying to collect all the information I can find on the Sanford MG (and related), and summarize it at the link below, so any additions are welcome. Right now I have some info on six machines, but I'd like to see a lot more.

https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/machining---lathes-mills-etc/my-surface-grinder

 

[Andy Pullen]

projectnut -


Andy - got your email to me, and glad to see you joining us here. I look forward to seeing more pictures of your machine (and your co-worker's too, if possible). When you take the spindle appart, I hope you will take lots of pictures!

I will take plenty of photos. Don't worry.

 

[projectnut]

projectnut -

With regard to lubrication, I'm a complete novice when it comes to surface grinding, so I bow to your superior experience.

Andy - got your email to me, and glad to see you joining us here. I look forward to seeing more pictures of your machine (and your co-worker's too, if possible). When you take the spindle appart, I hope you will take lots of pictures!

To anyone else who happens to find this discussion, I'm trying to collect all the information I can find on the Sanford MG (and related), and summarize it at the link below, so any additions are welcome. Right now I have some info on six machines, but I'd like to see a lot more.

https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/machining---lathes-mills-etc/my-surface-grinder

I don't claim to be a lubrication expert either. I'm just going by what I was told from people in the business. I worked in the engineering department of a major food company for over 20 years. Our department designed, built, and installed proprietary processing and packaging machinery for our company. The machines ranged in size from smaller than a bread box to multi story 200+ foot long monsters. We did have a lubrication engineer on staff. It was his job to analyze the needs and recommend lubricants. He also regularly monitored and tested the lubricants to be sure those recommended would work under the harsh conditions. In most any case other than areas where there was potential exposure to the product some type of automobile lubricant was preferred.

 

[kevin]

projectnut -

With regard to lubrication, I'm a complete novice when it comes to surface grinding, so I bow to your superior experience.

Andy - got your email to me, and glad to see you joining us here. I look forward to seeing more pictures of your machine (and your co-worker's too, if possible). When you take the spindle appart, I hope you will take lots of pictures!

To anyone else who happens to find this discussion, I'm trying to collect all the information I can find on the Sanford MG (and related), and summarize it at the link below, so any additions are welcome. Right now I have some info on six machines, but I'd like to see a lot more.

https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/machining---lathes-mills-etc/my-surface-grinder