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- Jan 17, 2020
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- 5
Interesting. I just looked at mine (a 1951 machine) and it does not have that oiler. Please let us know when you figure out where it feed to!
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Looking for Sanford MG-612 Surface Grinder owners
- Thread starter kevin
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
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- 192
lj -
My Sanford does not have that oiler at all. Just a guess, but I assume it is for oiling the vertical ways; it looks factory installed, but it might have been added by some previous owner.
The motor on my Sanford is a 110V Marathon "Farm Duty" motor - obviously not the original motor. Also obviously nothing special about the motor, but I don't have any problem getting good surface grinds. Some people recommend taking the motor (with pulley attached) to a motor shop and having it "precision balanced" but I have never done this. I would say just make sure your belt, pulleys, and bearing are in good condition and see what kind of finish you get before you start spending money to fix what might not be a problem.
Info on my Sanford here:
sites.google.com
Info on Sanford's generally here:
sites.google.com
My Sanford does not have that oiler at all. Just a guess, but I assume it is for oiling the vertical ways; it looks factory installed, but it might have been added by some previous owner.
The motor on my Sanford is a 110V Marathon "Farm Duty" motor - obviously not the original motor. Also obviously nothing special about the motor, but I don't have any problem getting good surface grinds. Some people recommend taking the motor (with pulley attached) to a motor shop and having it "precision balanced" but I have never done this. I would say just make sure your belt, pulleys, and bearing are in good condition and see what kind of finish you get before you start spending money to fix what might not be a problem.
Info on my Sanford here:
Academy of Lagado - My Surface Grinder - 1
Sanford MG-612 Surface Grinder - and Related Resources Includes info on the Harvey Butterfly LG8-12 Surface Grinder [4/14/2018 - create page]
sites.google.com
Info on Sanford's generally here:
Academy of Lagado - My Surface Grinder - 2
References and Tutorials for Surface Grinders - All Makes Note: This web page is for information on surface grinders generally. For information specific to Sanford MG and Harvey LG surface grinders see this
sites.google.com
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2014
- Messages
- 3,525
Just got home and took a look at the Sanford grinder. Mine does not have the Gits oiler behind the elevation screw. Mine is an earlier model made in 1954.
As for lubrication on the X and Y axis there is a grease fitting about 3" behind the Y axis hand wheel. There is also a grease fitting about 6" behind the X handwheel. This one greases the rack and pinion for the X movement. There are 2 Gits oilers over each of the Y ways. One just in front of the table, and another just behind the table There are also 2 gits oilers mounted on the front of the table. One for each of the X axis ways.
The motor most likely came with bearings that could be oiled at each end of the shaft since there is a removable plug over each bearing. When I got the machine one of the motor bearings was making noise. I removed them to find sealed bearings. I replaced them with identical sealed bearings.
In post #6 of this thread are some pictures of my machine. The first one shows the oilers for the Y axis in front of the table, the grease fitting on the Y axis feed screw, and the oilers mounted on the front of the table for the X axis ways. The second picture shows the grease fitting under the table on the X axis shaft for the rack and pinion.
In the manual I have (mostly related to the SG grinders) there is a maintenance schedule. That schedule recommends removing the table on a weekly basis to clean and oil the ways and feed screws. 10W-30 oil is recommended for both the ways and feed screws
As for lubrication on the X and Y axis there is a grease fitting about 3" behind the Y axis hand wheel. There is also a grease fitting about 6" behind the X handwheel. This one greases the rack and pinion for the X movement. There are 2 Gits oilers over each of the Y ways. One just in front of the table, and another just behind the table There are also 2 gits oilers mounted on the front of the table. One for each of the X axis ways.
The motor most likely came with bearings that could be oiled at each end of the shaft since there is a removable plug over each bearing. When I got the machine one of the motor bearings was making noise. I removed them to find sealed bearings. I replaced them with identical sealed bearings.
In post #6 of this thread are some pictures of my machine. The first one shows the oilers for the Y axis in front of the table, the grease fitting on the Y axis feed screw, and the oilers mounted on the front of the table for the X axis ways. The second picture shows the grease fitting under the table on the X axis shaft for the rack and pinion.
In the manual I have (mostly related to the SG grinders) there is a maintenance schedule. That schedule recommends removing the table on a weekly basis to clean and oil the ways and feed screws. 10W-30 oil is recommended for both the ways and feed screws
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
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- 192
I use Mobil Vactra #2 on my machine. Elsewhere I have read that using detergent motor oil on machine tools is not recommended - I'm not enough of an expert to know if this is true or not, but I figure it makes sense to use a lubricant designed for machine tools. My machine has gits oilers for the ways, but no grease fittings anywhere. My machine does not have any oilers on the top - I just reach around behind with a pump oiler.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Vintage Machinery site as it has some publications for Sanford.
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=10678&tab=3
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=10678&tab=3
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- Apr 14, 2014
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That was true of the earliest of the detergent oils. The detergent would cause the oil to foam is cases where it was agitated like a gear box. Detergent oils have been the standard for at least the last 40 years.
I've mentioned this in previous posts, but it is still worth repeating. The company I worked for designed and built food production machinery. The machines ranged in size from smaller than a bread box to over 2 stories high and 200 feet long. We had a lubrication engineer on staff to be sure the machines would get the proper lubricants to allow them to maintain productivity through their expected lifespan. The expected lifespan of almost all machines was 250,000 hours. That's 24 hours per day, seven days per week, fifty weeks per year for thirty years. They were shut down for 2 weeks per year for scheduled maintenance. Obviously there were some unscheduled breakdowns, but by in large they did run as scheduled. In all cases where there was no product contact automotive lubricants were recommended. That included detergent motor oils and gear oils.
I have had discussions with retired engineers formerly employed by Sheldon, Gisholt, Cincinnati, and Kearney & Trecker. Almost to a person they feel current day motor oils are far better than the machine oils recommended from the 1940's thru the 1960's. I have even had the person from Sheldon recommend replacing all formerly recommended machine lubrication oils with current day SAE 10W-30. I have followed their recommendations on all of my machines. I do still have a couple gallons of Vactra #2 way oil I use on the milling machines, but other than that I use current day single or multi viscosity motor oils. I've had some of the machines over 20 years with no ill effects.
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@projectnut is (hopefully) putting to rest the religious wars over 'my lube is better than your lube' argument.
The ONLY thing I have to add is that for surfaces that drip, like vertical ways on mills or veeways on lathes, way oil is stickier, and runs off slower.
As long as you keep a film there, it doesn't really matter what you use as today's oils are very well engineered. This is why I switched to iso 32 hydraulic oil for almost everything, including all my gear boxes. It has much better lubricity than conventional heavy gear oil. Why? because it was 1/3 the price of way oil and available in 5 gal buckets.
The ONLY thing I have to add is that for surfaces that drip, like vertical ways on mills or veeways on lathes, way oil is stickier, and runs off slower.
As long as you keep a film there, it doesn't really matter what you use as today's oils are very well engineered. This is why I switched to iso 32 hydraulic oil for almost everything, including all my gear boxes. It has much better lubricity than conventional heavy gear oil. Why? because it was 1/3 the price of way oil and available in 5 gal buckets.
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A little off topic, but in my post #6 I noted that a set of table stops for my machine (built in 1954) originally listed for $430.00. At that time their version of "table stops" was a system entirely independent of the table itself. If you look at more recent versions of the machine as in Jpigg55's post #33 you'll see the more traditional T slot on the front rail of the table and the stop mechanism mounted to the table carriage.
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Mystery solved - the oil cup on top of the spindle housing is in fact for the ways.
I use Mobil Vactra #2, as well, but it's good to know 10W-30 works!
Took the downfeed screw and spindle out today. After I replaced the motor bearings, balanced the pulley, and replaced the belt there was still too much vibration. The race of the front spindle bearing was burned up. It looked like someone went crazy with grease and I suspect they also cranked down on the nut to increase preload as wear compensation. I hadn't run it long enough for the spindle housing to come up to temp, but the spindle nose was getting quite hot. It's a little frustrating that the spindle work needs to be done at the machine since the shaft prevents you from taking the casting out. I'm thinking I'll freeze the spindle to shrink it, and shoot a torch through a copper pipe sitting in the mounted bearings to get it back together without destroying things. Took a chance on some N.O.S. Timken 2M205WI bearings on eBay, seemingly the only ones that weren't out of their bags on a dirty table for a photoshoot.
When it's all said and done I guess I bought a mag chuck, a casting, and a spindle shaft haha. That's the risk, but this is all part of the fun, right?
By the way, kevin, I want to thank you for taking the time to put together your website. I found it when I was trying to decide on buying this grinder and it was a tremendous help! It's easy to be a passive user of the internet, another thing to be an active contributor. Seeing the details of you moving the machine really gave me the confidence to take the leap. This thread was a big help, too.
I use Mobil Vactra #2, as well, but it's good to know 10W-30 works!
Took the downfeed screw and spindle out today. After I replaced the motor bearings, balanced the pulley, and replaced the belt there was still too much vibration. The race of the front spindle bearing was burned up. It looked like someone went crazy with grease and I suspect they also cranked down on the nut to increase preload as wear compensation. I hadn't run it long enough for the spindle housing to come up to temp, but the spindle nose was getting quite hot. It's a little frustrating that the spindle work needs to be done at the machine since the shaft prevents you from taking the casting out. I'm thinking I'll freeze the spindle to shrink it, and shoot a torch through a copper pipe sitting in the mounted bearings to get it back together without destroying things. Took a chance on some N.O.S. Timken 2M205WI bearings on eBay, seemingly the only ones that weren't out of their bags on a dirty table for a photoshoot.
When it's all said and done I guess I bought a mag chuck, a casting, and a spindle shaft haha. That's the risk, but this is all part of the fun, right?
By the way, kevin, I want to thank you for taking the time to put together your website. I found it when I was trying to decide on buying this grinder and it was a tremendous help! It's easy to be a passive user of the internet, another thing to be an active contributor. Seeing the details of you moving the machine really gave me the confidence to take the leap. This thread was a big help, too.
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- Jan 17, 2020
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Just to follow up on this: I pulled the spindle today and it does indeed use ball bearings. The solid metal insert that I had found under the set-screwed-on dust cap appears to be another cap that had been press fit into the housing. The inside of this additional cap is threaded (for no apparent reason) and I believe this must have been an addition to the machine - purpose unknown. Perhaps to provide a dam to keep spindle oil from dripping out? (my machine had an oil cup added to the top of the spindle, so the bearings were running partially under oil).
Since I will now be working on this machine, can anyone tell me about the raised cap that is on the rear of the spindle (the one held on by two screws, and that can be removed once the pulley has been taken off? The inside of this cap is threaded, but I dont understand why.
