HSS inserts?

Yes, I was kidding about the mail with seals stamped on it. Out of curiosity did you take any pics of a finished wax seal? The tools I was referring to are the simple holders that you screw the insert onto. Looks to be a piece of square bar stock with a recess milled into it to keep the insert from spinning and set the angle. A tapped hole allows a screw to go through the bit thereby securing it. The cheapest single holder I have found yet was at ar warner and went for $45. Most appear to go for $80 and up.The hss inserts I looked at were warners at LMS. They were $6-7. Not bad for the bits you can re use. For the simple holder though, just crazy money. I could have bought about three boring bars that hold inserts for what I paid for a 6" rotary table, tailstock, dividing set, and some clamps. Something wrong with that picture.
 
chuckorlando said:
You can buy a cheap 30 dollar set with 5 holders and then use the hss inserts. At least that would be my route or make some myself.

The inserts them self are 5-6 bucks each. Which still seems pricey being the carbides cost the same. You would think steel would be cheaper. But you charge what the market will bear I figure
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Do you have a link to witch cheap 1/2" holders will take the warner HHS triangle inserts.
 
I should add that I checked Grizzly and they are more reasonable on the holders than I remember. They have smaller ones around $20 and up. They have a five piece set with 10 inserts for $65. Inserts there though looked to be pricey. Cheapest I saw without digging too deep was $16 apiece for carbide. I got c2 and c6 inserts for a face mill for less than $5 each, so not great. The price of the holders goes up quickly with size also. I have heard good things about a Mesa threading tool holder also, but know nothing first hand.

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kd4gij said:
Do you have a link to witch cheap 1/2" holders will take the warner HHS triangle inserts.
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Try AR Warner. They should tell you what carbide their hss are direct replacements for. Then you can seek out holders that hold what you want to hold. If memory serves, LMS cross references their inserts like that, carries both carbide and hss, as well as holders. Couple of ideas anyway. I'm trying to avoid learning all the coding until and if I decide I must have lots of style and types. Finding the right type for my $20 Kennametal face mill took me hours. I could do a lot of work and sharpen some bits in that time. Edit OOPS. Check out post 7, page 1.
 
You get what you pay for. US made out of a very high grade of HSS. Hardened tool holders with quality torx head screws. Multiple sizes for different sizes of machines. Over the course of several years the cost is insignificant. The beauty of the HSS inserts from Warner are (besides the quality) is the insert is sharpened perfectly flat on the diamond hone. No screwing around trying to maintain an angle on the side rake etc. For general turning you can't beat them. Their carbide is US made also, no cheap import junk. Will handle the majority of your turning needs with a minimum of fuss. Give them a call and they'll be glad to give you a suggestion on what will work best for you. I did and the machinist (not just a sale rep) I talked to actually made some very good points that made me select something different than what I was originally considering.

George Wilson: I absolutely agree you still need to be able to grind your own HSS tools. It was the first thing we learned to do in the machining program I do in the evenings at the local tech school. I still grind for specific jobs/profiles. I generally suck at it. Takes me a while but I get the profile I need. Still use my lantern style tool post at times also. Hand grinding HSS bits seems to be a dying skill. I'm going to be making some curved profile tools next. Similar to what Mrpete222 does on his you tube site.

Happy machining,
Chris
 
I have the 3/8" AR Warner turning tool set and they're okay. The inserts are T-15 HSS, flat-topped, have about a 1/32" nose radius and are shaped just like a carbide insert. There is no chip breaker. The holders are well made and accept carbide inserts; I can't recall which ones fit but AR Warner will tell you if you call.

These HSS inserts work just like a carbide insert but give a better finish at lower speeds. Yes, they can be resharpened but they will still be inserts.

I actually no longer use these tools. They work okay but are vastly inferior to a well-ground HSS tool, at least on my little Sherline lathe. You might think that a Sherline lathe is a toy but I can take a cut on it with a HSS tool that would make an AR Warner tool chatter the lathe off the bench. Tool geometry matters, regardless of the size of the lathe. It takes me all of 4 minutes to grind a good tool from a blank that will easily outperform an inserted HSS tool, and I can hone it between cuts in 15-20 seconds. Whatever advantage I thought those inserted tools would give me never materialized.

I don't regret the purchase, though; at least now I know what I know and it is not just an opinion I read somewhere. My best advice: save the money and grind your own tools.
 
As far as I know,these HSS inserts are flat and therefore have no chip breaker groove on them,nor do they have any angle on top to make their cutting angles more acute. I will stay with grinding my own HSS tools for these reasons also.

If you do have a light,low powered lathe, a proper hand ground HSS tool will make cutting a greater depth of metal much easier on your lathe.

Sorry,I took no pictures of seals made with the wax seal tools. They just have a logo with the initials of the customer on them. The zig zag edges were filed on with gunsmith's checkering files,and were made a bit tapered to come out of the wax easily without breaking it. You can click twice on the wax seal pictures to see the tiny convex knurling on one of them,and to see the initials better. JLA.
 
Been enjoying this discussion. There is one overlooked fact here though. When we hobby guys look at tooling catalogs, these are the catalogs intended for professional manufacturing use.

I personally enjoy grinding tools and have a whole drawer full of specials. I like the finish from HSS. I enjoy the ease of use of HSS, finish cuts are easier to control with HSS.

Everything about carbide is speed of feed and depth of cut. Lots of speed and pressure. We are talking manufacturing when we are trying to make money. I machine to relax. Yes I do use carbide, but let the job dictate the type cutter used. Mainly do to hard, tough material or stainless.

Cost, nothing cheaper then HSS and I have friend who runs a machine shop and frequents auctions and sales of other shops. He always has boxes of loose inserts sitting around and lets me plow through them and help myself for free. He scraps most of the loose stuff.

Something to consider.
 
I picked up a 8in bench grinder yesterday. I have a bunch of tools and new blanks, I intend to pick up some fly cutters verse a face mill for now(alot cheaper) so it just reasons I should grind my own for now. I want a roto table and/or a dividing head, and a ton of other crap. Just got my dro's (have to install the knee yet), I want some boring bars or head........... My money is better spent else where for now

That being said, I still love the idea of inserts and more so hss ones for everyday use. At least for turning and facing
 
chuck - if you're going to start grinding your own bits, I'd really recommend getting a fine grit diamond hone or a couple of grades (soft+hard) of Arkansas stone to finish off the bits. Made a world of difference in finish and ease of cutting in my hands.
 
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