How to Raise a Vice on a Kneeless Mill?

[Robo_Pi]

Just as an aside:

I thought I should mention this while I'm on the topic.

I originally wasn't planning on using the X-Y vice cross-feeds for actual cutting. I really only bought this X-Y vice for the height it offers.

But on this project my workpiece was 5 inches long and my lathe cross-feed only travels about 4.5" of useful travel. So it turned out that I had to use the crossfeed screw on the X-Y vice to finish the last 1/2 inch of cut. And that worked out real slick. So that was a nice feature. Saved me from having to reposition the workpiece in the vice and starting over. So this X-Y vice will actually extend my milling range by an extra 3 or 4 inches. That's kind of interesting. I didn't really buy it for that, but hey, it's nice to have.

Here's the vice I bought from Amazon. It was just under $60.

WEN 414CV 4.25" Compound Cross Slide Industrial Strength Benchtop & Drill Press Vise

It's certainly not the greatest. But for the price it ain't bad. Like I say, when I bought it I was just buying it for the height.

I wasn't even thinking of using the X-Y feature other than for just quick set up. Also, I keep these gibs pretty tight. I wasn't planning on using the X-Y after initial set-up. But as it turns out, it came in handy after all. If you're looking for high precision though you'd definitely be far better off buying a much more expensive X-Y vice. But hey, for 60 bucks this baby ain't bad. I'm happy with mine. Take good care of it and don't abuse it and it should last quite a while. Put big heavy stuff in it and beat it up and it will probably break fairly easily. So beware of that.

 

[Larry42]

You're absolutely right. If my goal was to just clean up the inside corner of this piece of angle iron I could have done that a long time ago in 5 minutes without any machines at all. That's not the point of this exercise. The point of this exercise is to increase the capability of this machine. This isn't the first time I've wished I could raise the vice, and I'm sure it won't be the last. In fact, before I bought this tall X-Y vice it was basically impossible to use the milling head at all as the lathe table is simply way too far beneath the milling cutter. The X-Y vice already give me about 5 inches of height. But even that is still not enough. I was thinking of a second solution, and that would be to simply by yet another small vice to put in the jaws of the X-Y vice. That would probably work too. I'm sure there's more than one way to skin this cat.



That's a great idea. In fact, it sounds like a good idea to have several of those laying around for various jobs. I don't currently have any box tubing laying around. I'm just getting back into machining again. So my scrap metal pile is currently non existent. That's going to change over the course of this summer though.



You're right. I'm dreaming too soon. I also need to put a new clutch in my truck before I set out to pick up any heavy machines.

The a new clutch and pressure plate are on order. Only $53, I was shocked that I could get a new clutch and pressure plate that cheap. And I'll be installing that baby myself for free. That's the only way I can afford to save up money to buy machines.

I was actually looking at a mag chuck for $69 too, but that's gone as well.

The only two items on my wishlist that are still available are the following. But they'll probably be gone too before I get the clutch installed in my truck.

South Bend Lathe - $1,100
View attachment 287161

I'm sure that will be gone before I can get the truck repaired.

Also a Surface Grinder - $235
View attachment 287162

There's no mag chuck with it, so that $69 mag chuck would have been nice. I was going to toss the Roundtower mill on there too since they are all from the same place. One trip, three machines. It would a little crowded on a 16' trailer, but I think I could have squeezed them all on there. I'm sure I can pick up the lathe and surface grinder in one trip. But these will probably be gone too before my truck recovers from slippery clutch syndrome.

That's alright. These prices are typical I'm sure. In fact, they have some other choices similarly priced.

In fact, they also currently have this Sebastian lathe for $999

I'm torn between it and the SouthBend.
View attachment 287163

Because things move so fast I plan on calling in my purchase and then driving out to pick the stuff up. That way it won't be sold while I'm driving over to pick it up. So I thought I'd buy the SouthBend lathe officially, and then when I get there take a look at the Sebastian and compare it with the SouthBend. Maybe then I could get them to cancel the Southbend and grab the Sebastian instead.

Disclaimer: I'm dreaming out loud. It may not be until mid summer before I'm actually ready to pick anything up. So those who don't enjoy reading about a hobbyist's dreams are better off ignoring my posts.

That RoundTower mill was from this same place. But they just now got in a Bridgeport, but they want $1200 for the Bridgeport. I like the $895 for the Roundtower much better.

I'll keep dreaming whilst I replace the slippery clutch on my truck. Who knows what they'll get in next? They had a really nice Atlas lathe that went for $399. But it was gone the day it came in. It was a pretty large Atlas and had some extra tooling too. So you never know what to expect.

This place is about 200 miles from me and I don't like to drive far. So I'd like to jump when I can get a nice lathe, vertical mill, and surface grinder all on one fell swoop. All at prices I'm willing to spend. I'm looking for an "Instant Shop" for about $2500 all toll. I don't mind machines that need to be rebuilt. I'm a hobbyist remember. I'm not starting up a business.

Replacing a clutch: If your truck has a hydraulic actuated clutch replace the slave cylinder at the same time. Especially if it is inside of the housing.
Check any tools you are considering for cracked castings or really worn beds. Either would make them pretty much worthless. Yes they could be repaired but the cost would be a lot.

 

[johnnyc14]

There are riser blocks made for those 3 in 1 machines. Here is example.

 

[Robo_Pi]

Replacing a clutch: If your truck has a hydraulic actuated clutch replace the slave cylinder at the same time

I haven't looked it over yet. It's a 1992 Ford F-150 2WD 5-speed. Or 4-speed with Overdrive? I hope I get the right clutch. I'm ordering it mail order. I don't know whether it's hydraulic or mechanical linkage. I'm guessing it's most likely hydraulic. I could go look right now but it's nasty weather out there and the truck is covered with snow right now. A glance under the hood would tell me immediately. But I'm guessing it will most likely be hydraulic. Mechanical linkage would be too good to be true. I like the old fashioned stuff. Why bother with hydralics when a metal rod works just fine? Keep things simple.

I actually bought this truck because it's barebone. A simple 300 cu 6 cyl engine. A simple manual transmission. No air bag. No power windows. No extra unnecessary stuff. It actually does have air conditioning but that doesn't work anyway. See. The more stuff the more things go wrong.

I really wanted an older truck but couldn't find one in decent shape for a good price. I lucked out and got this one for a song and it's in really great shape overall. I'm tickled pink to own it.

I would have preferred 4WD, but this baby was in such good shape at the right price I couldn't pass her up, and I have no regrets. Beautiful machine!

I'm treating her like an antique and doing restoration work progressively every summer. She's only getting better with age. So yeah, I'll replace the slave cylinder if she has one. As I say, she's undergoing piecemeal restoration.

 

[tweinke]

It is hydraulic, just replaced one at work last week. Definitely replace the slave cylinder and release bearing. The slave cylinder has a tendency to leak after replacing the clutch if you don't replace it.

 

[Robo_Pi]

It is hydraulic, just replaced one at work last week. Definitely replace the slave cylinder and release bearing. The slave cylinder has a tendency to leak after replacing the clutch if you don't replace it.

I used the truck today to go buy kerosene. It's freezing here! And I looked and you're right it is indeed hydraulic. The moment I looked I remembered. In fact, I'm pretty sure I checked that when I bought it. Like I say, I would have been thrilled to have mechanical linkage, but this is ok.

Thanks for reminding me. I'll order a slave cylinder when I order the clutch. I haven't put the order in yet.

I see the picture of it now. It actually goes around the shaft just behind the throwout bearing.

Darn thing is made out of plastic to boot.

I'll have to keep an eye out for an older truck. See if I can upgrade to something better.

But yeah, I'll definitely replace this slave cylinder while I'm at it. It would be crazy not to.

 

[tweinke]

Its a pain to bleed the air out sometimes but is doable with patience.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Why are you using that 2 axis vise? Can't you just use the lathe carriage?

 

[Robo_Pi]

Why are you using that 2 axis vise? Can't you just use the lathe carriage?

Apparently you didn't read the entire thread. I bought the vice solely as a riser. After all $60 is far cheaper than $175 or $159 riser block with no vice. The fact that it had X-Y cross-slides was just icing on the cake. I figured at the least those X-Y adjustments might come in handy during the initial set-up of a work piece. Easier than trying to move the vice around to the best position.

Once I'm set up, I actually do use the lathe carriage for the actual milling. I lock the gibs on the X-Y vice down tight.

However, if you had read the details in my previous posts you would have seen that in this particular case the X-Y capability of the vice actually came in handy. My lathe cross-slide only has about 4.5" of useful travel before the end of the cross-slide screw. The piece I was milling was 5 inches wide. So the X-Y capability of this vice saved the day. I was able to finish the extra inch of travel using the vice cross-slide. Otherwise I would have had to stop and reposition the workpiece to finish the cut. So this vice actually gives my little mill extra capacity. It actually increases my cross travel by about 4 more inches (as a practical matter) maybe even 6 inches taking things to the extreme. That's not too shabby.

I didn't even buy it for that purpose, but as it turns out this feature saved the day on this particular job. I now have 4 more inches of cross-slide cutting capacity than I had before. So a nice little unplanned bonus there.

 

[yas375]

I'm glad I found this thread! Thanks everyone participating and sharing good ideas.

I have the same lathe/mill and run into exactly same issue a week ago. I needed to mill a small slot in "quick change tool post". I don't have proper mill vise yet, but I had some cheap crappy vise which I got at an estate sale long ago for a few bucks. So I decided to use those to hold the piece. But it doesn't add much height so I needed to raise it by about 5in. I had some 3/4 thick MDF laying around, so I cut 7 pieces of the size of the saddle, drilled holes for bolts to go through. And used 6-1/2" long bolts to go though the vise mounting halls, mdf and into t-nuts in the saddle slots.

It wasn't very rigid and I definitely don't recommend this method. But at least it got me unblocked. As my friend says: "do what you gotta do to get the part done".




I don't recommend this method and I don't plan to use this "raiser" much. That's why I went for searching and found this thread. I got some ideas. Thanks again everyone who participated.