[How-To] Hitting a measurement

I'm interested. I've done a beautiful of burnishing a finish when trying to cut those last few thou. with carbide inserts. They do have a minimum cut depth.

Yeah, they do. This DOC stuff is really hard to deal with in a deep precision bore so you sort of need to have your knowledge sorted out in that situation. I've had projects that took hours just to get to the boring stage. Mess it up then and you get to start all over again - not fun!
 
I don't really mean to confuse the issue but did you know that an insert can cut on its edges and not just with the nose radius? This works best with finishing inserts (the distance from the edge to the trough between the edge and the chip breaker is smaller with finishing inserts) and it works even better with AK (aluminum-cutting) inserts that have sharp ground edges. We typically use inserted tool holders held perpendicular to the work but there is no law that says you must.

If you turn the tool tip towards the chuck so that the insert contacts the work just behind the nose radius, it will cut on the end cutting edge. Quite often, you can take a shearing cut with a tiny DOC and produce a very accurate cut with a fine finish when using the tool this way. I do this all the time with my CCGT-AK inserts. Surprisingly, radial deflection is minimal and tangential forces are not a problem due to the small DOC so cuts tend to be accurate. It's almost like using an inserted tool like you would use a HSS tool. Give it a try and see how it works for you.
 
What I found was that I could get to say, .0877, then I'd dial in an additional .002 expecting to hit .0875". Instead I'd get .874 or .873.
Stick out was about an 1.5" total on 1" CRS.

Your cut removes the designated amount from the surface of the entire circumference.
When you have .0877 and you want to create .0875 you need to dial in .001, not .002.
 
What I found was that I could get to say, .0877, then I'd dial in an additional .002 expecting to hit .0875". Instead I'd get .874 or .873.
Stick out was about an 1.5" total on 1" CRS.

Your cut removes the designated amount from the surface of the entire circumference.
When you have .0877 and you want to create .0875 you need to dial in .001, not .002.
My lathe has direct reading dials meaning that the number on the dial is the total reduction in diameter.
If I dial in .002" the crossslide only moves .001"
 
I used to have trouble hitting my numbers until I watched a Suburban Tool video on boring precise holes with a milling machine. He explained and demonstrated spring passes very well. The same technique directly applies to a lathe.
 
Hitting the dimension and getting an acceptable surface finish is where the art in machining lies. It helps to practice, throw some stock in the machine and start turning.
 
I don't really mean to confuse the issue but did you know that an insert can cut on its edges and not just with the nose radius? This works best with finishing inserts (the distance from the edge to the trough between the edge and the chip breaker is smaller with finishing inserts) and it works even better with AK (aluminum-cutting) inserts that have sharp ground edges. We typically use inserted tool holders held perpendicular to the work but there is no law that says you must.

If you turn the tool tip towards the chuck so that the insert contacts the work just behind the nose radius, it will cut on the end cutting edge. Quite often, you can take a shearing cut with a tiny DOC and produce a very accurate cut with a fine finish when using the tool this way. I do this all the time with my CCGT-AK inserts. Surprisingly, radial deflection is minimal and tangential forces are not a problem due to the small DOC so cuts tend to be accurate. It's almost like using an inserted tool like you would use a HSS tool. Give it a try and see how it works for you.
I often have to reduce the length of some 1 3/4"honed tubing and if I have just a quarter inch to shorten them (3/16 wall?) I just use the middle edge of my TPG insert and sort of skive away the material. As you say, it cuts great and it's like using a "free" cutting tool.
 
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When shooting for a diameter I rough to about 20 or 30 thou over size, measure and cut half of whats left, measure and see what Im actually getting, then adjust the last cut to size, no spring pass needed. If your going to do a spring pass, do it after the first finish cut to see what your actually removing, measure then adjust your last cut to size, your spring cut should get you there. You will get a lot less machine flex with light cuts.

Greg
 
Unless you have a substantial machine you have lots if things that will cause this.general clearances that compound.

Example is between feed screw and nut, cushioned by oil.

We usually wind the tool a couple turns away from the cut then bring it in.

Only turn towards the cut and if you back off, go 2 turns then return.

This helps to remove most of the slop as it is insuring everything is being pushed.

Takes out backlash.

A sharp carbide can take small cuts but like taking large ones, assume there is some spring back and backlash, so when you only have 0.005 or less then just cut again without changing depth of cut.

Measure and see what you got.

It is a hobby so time does not matter, sneak up on final cut.

Another thing that will get you is the finish, look close and the surface is not smooth, it is similar texture to a fine thread screw.

You measure the high spots, repeat the pass but the tool is not in same place so surface smoother and size different.

The amount of passes you take matter on how accurate you need to be and how your machine acts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Why be embarrassed? It is the tool you used.

I can tell you exactly why this is happening because I've been here before, and you can sum it up in one word - deflection. What is happening is that radial cutting forces are very large with tiny depths of cut like you were attempting. I don't know what the nose radius of your insert is but I will bet that a 0.002" depth of cut is less than 1/3 of your nose radius. If this is so then your tool is mostly skating over the surface of the work and will not provide a consistent cut, nor will it cut to the depth you dial in.

I went over this in more detail in my Boring Primer so I won't go into detail here but I encourage you to read it and try to understand how these cutting forces work. They are real forces and unless you understand them it will be hard for you to sort things out. Everything I said in the Primer applies to inserted carbide turning tools, too.

Okay, from a practical standpoint you need to hit a specific size, 0.875" OD and you're starting at 1.00" OD. Let's assume your nose radius is 0.015". Ideally, you want to take a minimum roughing depth of cut of 0.015 + around 0.005 - 0.010", so around 0.025" deep will work. Dial in that cut and measure the OD, then take another 0.025" and measure it. The SECOND cut should give you an OD 0.050" smaller than the first OD. Subsequent cuts at the same DOC should give you a consistent reduction in diameter. If this is so then the insert is responding as it should.

Next, you need to determine how small a cut that insert will allow. Most inserts will cut consistently (not accurately, consistently) at about 1/2 the nose radius, or about 0.008" DOC, without radial forces being too extreme. Go smaller than this and the insert tends to skate and not cut; go bigger and radial forces also rise until you get to about 0.005 - 0.010" beyond the nose radius. About 1/2NR is about the smallest you can reliably go and have the insert cut consistently. You will find that 1/2NR cuts will not cut what you dial in, though. Say you dial in 0.008"; you will not get a 0.016" reduction in diameter. It may be 0.015 or 0.018" but it will be consistently that number if you dial in that 0.008" DOC. Once you know what the minimum DOC your insert requires, write it down. Now you know that you simply need to rough the work until it is 0.015" or 0.018" away from final size and dial in your 0.008" DOC to come in on final size.

I hope this is clear. If not, say so and we'll break it down further. Practice until you know how to use that insert, then write down what DOC works for both roughing and finishing. Every insert is different so do this for every insert you use. Eventually, you will learn how each of your tools likes to cut and you'll be fine. Just remember that tip geometry for turning tools is important and the more you know about how that geometry impacts on cutting forces, the easier it will be for you to effectively use those tools.

Remember, too, that a properly ground HSS tool will usually cut what you dial in and is much easier to work with. One day, when you have the time, give them a shot.
Hey @mikey can you give a link to this thread or the name so I can find it?
 
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