Headstock Oil Headache (Victor 1640)

[G-ManBart]

Last week I brought home a Victor 1640 lathe that has a 1976 build date on it. Everything works as it should, and it doesn't seem to have been used much...minimal backlash, ways in great shape, etc. I popped open the headstock cover, the gears all look pristine, and the oil looks clean (amber, no signs of water, etc). Still, I want to drain and refill the headstock for peace of mind.

The side of the headstock is actually marked: "Use Mobil D.T.E. Oil Light" which is ISO32. In the manual it also says to use Mobile D.T.E. Light in the section describing lubrication, but in the lubrication chart just below it lists Mobil D.T.E. Heavy Medium which is ISO 68 and two other brands of equivalent ISO 68 oil. I found a forum reference that someone called Victor and they suggested Shell Turbo T46, which is an ISO 46 oil similar to the Mobil Medium in the named series. Several forum pictures I found of the same machine are marked "Use Mobil D.T.E. Heavy Medium" and the manuals say the same thing in the description and the chart.

I've spent far too much time thinking about this and doing research. My gut tells me the DTE Light would be fine, but it seems pretty light and all the other machines list the ISO 68 oils, so it has me wondering since that's what's in the chart. I'm leaning towards splitting the difference and going with a good AW and R&O ISO 46 and calling it good. A side benefit of that plan is that my Clausing calls for an ISO 46 oil the for headstock so I can use the same oil for both.

Thoughts?

Since everyone loves pics, here are two. It's on the dirty side, but is cleaning up nicely. A funny thing is that the plastic film was still on almost all of the knobs/name plates/etc....oil got behind them, so they looked awful, but pop off the film, wipe the part down and they look pretty nice. I bought it from the second owner. His friend owned a tractor dealership and bought the lathe new for their service department. The seller said he would use if there from time to time and when the owner retired, he bought the lathe. He's a steam power guy who made most of his parts on a nice SB 10L he bought new in 1970, but used the Victor for odd larger parts.

First pic is as it landed and second pic is after less than an hour of cleaning:

 

[mksj]

Manual specifies ISO32, typically with splash lubrication a lighter oil works better to splash up and into the channels that lubricate the bearings. Could be more of an issue in colder climates when using a higher viscosity oil. Similar lathes like the Sunmaster use ISO32 in the headstock, ISO68 gearbox and carriage. I would recommend going with either an ISO32 or ISO46, the latter is less common. I use Miles oil from Zoro in my Sunmaster lathe headstock. Zoro has frequent 20% coupons and free shipping. Probably not much difference between and ISO32-68 if in a temperate climate, but if it gets cold in the winter I would go with a lighter viscosity.

Nice beefy lathe.

Victor 1640 Manuals:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Miles 5 gal Rust and Oxidation Oil Pail 32 ISO Viscosity, 10W SAE, Amber is listed as a circulating oil

Miles Lubricants 5 gal Rust and Oxidation Oil Pail 32 ISO Viscosity, 10W SAE, Amber M0010020103 | Zoro

Order Miles Lubricants 5 gal Rust and Oxidation Oil Pail 32 ISO Viscosity, 10W SAE, Amber, M0010020103 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

Miles Lubricants 5 gal Rust and Oxidation Oil Pail 46 ISO Viscosity, 20W SAE, Amber M0010020099 | Zoro

Order Miles Lubricants 5 gal Rust and Oxidation Oil Pail 46 ISO Viscosity, 20W SAE, Amber, M0010020099 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

 

[G-ManBart]

Manual specifies ISO32, typically with splash lubrication a lighter oil works better to splash up and into the channels that lubricate the bearings. Could be more of an issue in colder climates when using a higher viscosity oil. Similar lathes like the Sunmaster use ISO32 in the headstock, ISO68 gearbox and carriage. I would recommend going with either an ISO32 or ISO46, the latter is less common. I use Miles oil from Zoro in my Sunmaster lathe headstock. Zoro has frequent 20% coupons and free shipping. Probably not much difference between and ISO32-68 if in a temperate climate, but if it gets cold in the winter I would go with a lighter viscosity.

Nice beefy lathe.

Yes and no, that's sort of the problem....it specifies both weights.

As I mentioned above, the paragraph talking about headstock lubrication says ISO 32. The chart right below that shows the headstock needing "Oil No. 1" and the next chart lists Oil No. 1 as ISO 68 by various companies. So the manual says both ISO 32 and ISO 68 for the headstock....hence my headache

My shop is climate-controlled so even in the winter it's still pretty warm....in the very coldest weather it might be 57-58*F at worst. That's part of why I'm sort of leaning towards the ISO 46....I can't imagine that not flowing and splashing the way it needs to. That plus the slightly newer versions of the same machine all seem to call for ISO 68 in the headstock.

It does seem to be beefy and the few cuts I've made with it have been impressive for sure!

 

[mksj]

Agree, I went with the original manual specifications which specifies the Victor 1600. The earlier manual shows a higher lathe top speed of 2000 RPM hence the thinner oil, the newer manual covers various Victor lathe models with lower top speeds so a higher viscosity would be fine. When you get up into the higher RPM range oil drag and foaming become more of an issue and this is reduced with a lower viscosity. I see yours tops out at 1800 RPM.

ISO46 is fine and middle of the road and as you use it in your other lathe I would stick with that. Miles oil have the usual additives for rust/oxidation, the ISO46 lists use for Bearings, Circulating Oil Systems, Enclosed Gear Boxes, Gears, Oil-filled Couplings, Steam and Gas Turbine. So more than adequate for a simple lathe. The reason I often see an ISO68 listed for everything is to minimize stocking multiple oils.

 

[tailstock4]

Nice looking lathe. Oil-in-gearhead lathes like these are always a little bit of a compromise. Lighter oil decreases friction in the tapered spindle bearing and thereby reducing temperature – which is a good thing. However, heavier oil helps to cushion the gear train which reduces noise and vibration that can get transferred to the surface finish. I would probably try an ISO 46 and check what the temperatures at higher speeds are like.

This lathe looks like a pretty good example of what I look for in a used machine. All the handles are there and in good shape. The decals and data plates look good. And even the paint, while dirty, doesn’t look abused. Plus it seems to have some of the accessories that often get separated from the machine.

As far as the machine goes one of the things I like about this particular example is the six hold-down bolts for the headstock. This is something that is often omitted on these small Mori Seki copies. It might seem trivial but it’s not.

Anyway, good job.

 

[G-ManBart]

This lathe looks like a pretty good example of what I look for in a used machine. All the handles are there and in good shape. The decals and data plates look good. And even the paint, while dirty, doesn’t look abused. Plus it seems to have some of the accessories that often get separated from the machine.

As far as the machine goes one of the things I like about this particular example is the six hold-down bolts for the headstock. This is something that is often omitted on these small Mori Seki copies. It might seem trivial but it’s not.

Anyway, good job.

Thanks....your comments echo exactly what I thought when I saw it. I really only have to find a follow rest (they seem to come up with some frequency) and a micrometer carriage stop. I have a micrometer carriage stop that I think will work in a pinch based upon a 30 second slap it on and take a look evaluation...might need a touch of tweaking, but it seems close.

I've mostly been cleaning and checking things, but have done a bit of turning, drilling and boring with it (making a replacement leveling pad) and it'll take some serious cuts compared to my 14" lathes and I'm probably babying it!

Looks like the consensus is to start out with the ISO46....I thought that made sense, but wanted a sanity check since the manual is confusing.

 

[Eyerelief]

I have been putting 68 in mine. No problems, no change in gear noise between start up and warm up, it’s pretty quiet. But down here in Texas start up is already warm. I’m sure you will be fine either way.