Grinder revisited

[dulltool17]

Mike- that Veritas is a thing of beauty! Copied picture so I can use it to make one.

Thanks!

 

[woodtickgreg]

Remember, Rikon has 2 models, skip the cheaper one and look at the better one.
And yes, the wheels that come with any grinder are almost always crap!

 

[Doubleeboy]

Forget Chinese grinders and go Mikey's route , use a belt sander. He has a wonderful thread here somewhere on his and options. A belt has a lot of things going for it. Before you drop money on a grinder that is a compromise reading Mike's thread is highly recommended IMO.

michael

 

[Silverbullet]

You could or should look for a older used baldor or Dayton grinders . Daytons are baldor with there name. Or even a used carbide grinder I think I saw one a week or so , on eBay . I bought one from grangers about thirty years ago the Dayton 7" with lighted eye shields and upgraded tool rests. I worked on repairs of power tools and had accounts with them for parts . We had MAKITA Milwaukee, Stanley, porter cable. Carried quite a few parts we had a good thing going till the building trades dumped back in around 1990. The carbide grinders are made to sharpen lathe tooling and used they run from $150 - $300. Even try running a wanted add in Craigslist don't cost anything. I think all the new power tools suck for being sold in America when there made in China.

 

[Aaron_W]

So something like this maybe?

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-3-4-...SellerId=Sears&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

 

[mikey]

There are no cheap, good belt sanders that are really that good for tool grinding except for the 2X72 big grinders. I've looked for a long time to find a replacement for the Sears 1/2HP 2X42 belt sander I have and have found nothing to match it. The main issue is that the right side of the platen must be wide open so that you can make a table to support the tool bit as you grind the rake angles. Most sanders have some kind of frame on the right side.

However, I did see this one on Grizzly's site: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Belt-Sander-Grinder/H7760

It has a chassis that exposes the right side of the belt. The platen is replaceable, which means you can make one from steel and epoxy a glass platen on it. It is also 1/2HP, which is the least you should consider for a belt sander for tool grinding. On top of that, it will take a 6" wheel on the left side and I would put a CBN wheel on it if I had this machine. The belts are 2" wide, which allows you to grind a tool fast. The belt length is only 27" so I think the belts may not last as long as a 42 - 72" belt but it should get the job done.

This is a machine that I think might just work. I haven't seen one or seen detailed pics of but it looks to have all the right stuff. If you go for this, please do a complete review so we can see how the platen is mounted. You will also need to build a good tool rest for it but it has a locking bolt for the table up front so its doable.

I would consider this one rather than the one you linked to, Aaron.

 

[woodtickgreg]

Lots of interesting opinions on this subject and a lot of good advise. I have several bench type grinders, yes a used baldor or dayton is always on my watch list, but they don't go cheap around here. I have an older craftsman that has good power and spools up fast. I have a baldor carbide tool grinder that I scored cheap but it needs a refurbish and it's on the long "round to it list". Belt grinders are awesome! But they have their downfalls too depending on what you spend, a belt grinder is on my list as well. They are such a useful tool, have a Burking at work that is awesome for fab work, removes a ton of material right now with a course belt, but way expensive for most of us hobbyist. A belt grinder with a fine belt is great for sharpening all kinds of things. A bench grinder is a useful tool for all kinds of things and not just for sharpening. I like having different machines that do different things, I'm not a fan of combo machines but that's just me. I have several grinders with different wheels on them to do different task, one with wire wheels. I don't have to change wheels, just move to another machine with that wheel.

 

[Aaron_W]

Mikey, I'm a bit confused when you say the belt is exposed on the right side. The one I linked to appears to be unobstructed to at least the same degree as the Grizzly you linked to. It also appears to have a far more substantial, work table with a more accurate means of setting the angle. It isn't really clear in the photos but the adjustable table shown on the disk side can be moved to the belt, which places it above the disk, so wide open from both sides.

I suspect I'm not understanding what you mean when you say the belt is open on the right side.


I've read your tool sharpening with a belt sander post, and know you don't like 1" belts, but is there a reason to avoid 4 or 6" belts? 2" doesn't appear to be a popular size, most that I'm seeing are light units with 1" belts, and then more substantial ones with 4-6".

Here is another Grizzly with a 4x36" belt and a disk sander. You can hit the 360 icon below the photo which will rotate the machine allowing a good view of all sides.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Com...547?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

This attachment costs as much as a half decent grinder, but perhaps this might be worth a look?

http://www.eastwood.com/multitool-2...V_9OUQaT245cBvvpznXhCVXMc7ZHtXahoC8OgQAvD_BwE

Thanks

 

[mikey]

Mikey, I'm a bit confused when you say the belt is exposed on the right side. The one I linked to appears to be unobstructed to at least the same degree as the Grizzly you linked to. It also appears to have a far more substantial, work table with a more accurate means of setting the angle. It isn't really clear in the photos but the adjustable table shown on the disk side can be moved to the belt, which places it above the disk, so wide open from both sides.

I suspect I'm not understanding what you mean when you say the belt is open on the right side.


I've read your tool sharpening with a belt sander post, and know you don't like 1" belts, but is there a reason to avoid 4 or 6" belts? 2" doesn't appear to be a popular size, most that I'm seeing are light units with 1" belts, and then more substantial ones with 4-6".

Here is another Grizzly with a 4x36" belt and a disk sander. You can hit the 360 icon below the photo which will rotate the machine allowing a good view of all sides.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Com...547?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

This attachment costs as much as a half decent grinder, but perhaps this might be worth a look?

http://www.eastwood.com/multitool-2...V_9OUQaT245cBvvpznXhCVXMc7ZHtXahoC8OgQAvD_BwE

Thanks

When grinding lathe tools, any belt sander will do for grinding the side and end but when it comes to the top surface of the tool that houses the rake angles (the most important of all the angles on a turning tool), you must have no obstruction on the right side of the belt. That means the right edge of the platen is not bordered or obstructed by anything; all you see is platen, not housing or belt safety cover. The grinder I linked to has a cover that obstructs the platen edge until you remove the cover; then the platen's right edge is totally clear. Here is my grinder and you can see the right side of the platen is wide open:



When grinding the top surface of the tool, the tail end of the tool bit will be angled back and the rear limit of the feature you're grinding (the back rake) will be cut right at the right edge of the platen itself.



Hence, the right side of the belt must be unobstructed. Most belt sanders, including the ones you linked to, are not suitable for tool grinding. The Multitool is okay for shop grinding but you must have a platen for tool grinding. If you can rig a really solidly supported platen for it then it would work.

Sooo, the things a belt sander for tool grinding must have are:

• An unobstructed platen on the right side. This platen must be removable so you can replace it with a flat steel platen with a ceramic glass liner epoxied to it. Some sanders have platens that are part of the chassis - those are no good. The platen has to be solidly supported. Most 1" belt sander platens are a piece of 1/8" mild steel fixed at one end. In use, that platen flexes too much and makes it all but impossible to grind an accurate face.
  
• A way to mount a good tool rest that is settable to precise angles. This should be made of steel; aluminum tables will catch on any edge and the tool can drag.

As mentioned above, 1" sanders have flexible platens. You can use them if you remove that platen and replace it with a solid block (with glass liner in place) attached to the chassis. Finding 1" belts in the coarse grits needed for tool shaping is also tough.

There is no reason you cannot use a wider belt as long as the sander meets the above criteria. The 2" width is probably the single most common belt width out there for metal working (not wood working) and belts of any length you need can be had. Klingspor will custom make belts, as will several other belt manufacturers.

I know its hard to find a good belt sander for tool grinding. I think the ideal grinder would be a 2X72 grinder with a custom tool rest but that is a machine that many of us cannot afford. I have yet to see a grinder to match my old Sears 2X42. They sell the exact same grinder today but only as a 1/3HP version and I can stop that motor dead just grinding wood, let alone tool steel. The Grizzly grinder I linked to looks like it might just work so I linked it above. Other than that, I haven't seen a decent grinder yet and trust me, I have been looking for a very long time.

 

[Aaron_W]

Thank you, that makes sense. It also highlights how hard it will be to locate such a critter online, some of these specs will be hard to determine without an actual hands on examination of the equipment.