Got My First Lathe... Logan 1875 - With Restoration.

[Mr Mike]

Evaporust is $20+ per gallon. Though it works really well, buying enough to do a lathe bed is a large investment, at least for a cheapskate like me. I think electrolysis is the way to go with bigger chunks of metal that need to look really nice when done.

Thanks Bob, we are pretty much on the same page here then, thought you were saying my using Scotchbrite pads was a big no no...
When I start doing the smaller parts like Handles and Nuts and Bolts ill test out the Evaporust and compare, Right now I'm having way to much fun with the Electrolysis though.. so all big parts are going in the tank

 

[Mr Mike]

Is a straight edge, straight? Ahh, now we jump into the deep and the arcane! Depends on how level is the surface you use to measure the edge. And the precision of the instrument you measure the surface. Metrology is a subject approaching philosophy and way beyound my meager knowledge. Actually there is a section on this forum that has several interesting discussions about this.

However there are some practical methods. Robert,above, posted a very good method to verify straightness. Usually you do this three times, with three different locations on the same reference surface, then average the three. You could also use a granite surface plate. Even a large square of plate glass will do. Precision straight edges are large, heavy, reinforced and very expensive instruments - in the realm of thousands of dollars. Delivered with an inspection certificate guareeteeing variation in the edge in the area of tenths or less - ten thousands of an inch. One must hang these vertically to insure the metal doesn't take a set and throw off the edge. So not generally available at a decent price.

Personally for a quick check i have used my aluminium carpenters rule - which I have found to be surprisingly 'straight'. Stainless 18" drafting rulers are often pretty good. You can measure deviation of what ever straightedges you might have around the shop, with feeler gauges, mark location of the variance on the device with a marking pen and subtract from your way measurements - gives you a reasonable assessment in thousands. For me, good enuf. I don't worrry much about nano measurements.

As to where to find a decent straight edge. you could check eBay. I've seen a lot of 'surplus' high quality metrology instruments coming out of Russian - old soviet block countries - for cheap. Apparently old time socialist party machinists turn out to be pretty good entrepreneurs!

Glenn

Hi Glenn, thanks for your input.!
I think for my first real learning lathe this logan 1875 will be more a learning tool / stepping stone if you will, so I'm not real worried about perfection over education this lathe has to offer, If its off a bit no biggie...

I'm not doing this restoration to to end up with a best in class lathe, It's more to learn proper procedures of what works or doesn't work, the hows and whys.. something to learn basic machining from the ground up.. Care and maintenance, If I get lucky and that usually does't happen, I hope to end up with a clean usable tool, I would expect I will make all the usual beginner mistakes and damage the lathe over time too, But more important is really just having some fun.

I could have jumped in with both feet an bought a nice new lathe, but then it would just be sitting in a corner outside with me wondering what to do with it.. and missed the opportunity to learn Electrolysis and other learning aids..

Thanks again Mike..

 

[Bob Korves]

Thanks Bob, we are pretty much on the same page here then, thought you were saying my using Scotchbrite pads was a big no no...
When I start doing the smaller parts like Handles and Nuts and Bolts ill test out the Evaporust and compare, Right now I'm having way to much fun with the Electrolysis thou.. so all big parts are going in the tank

Once you have electrolysis going well, you might as well keep using it as long as it is doing a good job for you. Evaporust is easier, and less messy, but either will do a good job on most projects. Evaporust is likely more expensive overall than electrolysis if you are doing both correctly. On smaller parts the differences are probably negligible cost wise.

 

[Mr Mike]

Once you have electrolysis going well, you might as well keep using it as long as it is doing a good job for you. Evaporust is easier, and less messy, but either will do a good job on most projects. Evaporust is likely more expensive overall than electrolysis if you are doing both correctly. On smaller parts the differences are probably negligible cost wise.

Hi Bob.. You are absolutely right, Electrolysis is very messy and I suspect that Evapo-Rust has allot lest cleanup afterwards, correct me if I'm wrong here - unlike electrolysis which removes Rust, Oils and Paint. Evapo-Rust will not remove Oils or Paint from the part, that means I would have to go through more steps.

This is the second bath the lathe bed took, as you can see all the blue paint that was left from the last bath is now gone from the center of the bed, which quickly flash rusted. No big deal it wipes right off..
However I have another electrolysis tip: Do Not set your bed in upside down or the Ways towards the bottom. I had little marks all over the ways from bubbles that couldn't escape from under the bed Ways. It took an additional hour to Re-Scotch bright the ways to remove the marks.

It would also probably be wise to not put parts in that capture and hold the gases because it will displace the water leaving the part in an uncleaned and marked condition.

All in all the bed came out of the second bath great, just had to wipe off the flash rust and clean the bubble marks off the ways, Its now ready to finish. The picture below shows flash rust on the bed just after being pulled from the bath, rinsed and dried. Note: the bed supports didn't get a second bath yet, They will but you can see the difference between the two.

 

[Bob Korves]

I have not done any electrolysis, but have watched it on YouTube, so I have a good idea how it goes. Evaporust cannot work well on rust that has oil or grease on it. There is a small amount of surfactant (detergent) in Evaporust so it gets into small places better, but it really is much better if all the grease and oil is removed, along with using a scratch brush or rotary brush on any loose rust, before dunking. Evaporust works by a chelating agent that attacks only the rust, and when the chelating agent is used up, the Evaporust is dead. So, the less total rust the better with Evaporust. The good thing about Evaporust, and electrolysis when used correctly, is that they do not attack good metal at all, not causing any etching or frosting of the good metal.

 

[Mr Mike]

As suggested in some other forum post, I went paint shopping today at the PPG store. I explained briefly to the sales gal what I was up to and she stopped me and called the manager up. He was very knowledgeable and I've got to tell ya.. I was a hit at the paint place, I explained to him what I'm trying to do - that I am restoring an old lathe. He gave me 3 options that I could use, explaining all their benefits.

I told him that PPG products has had some good reviews on the HM and PM forums, I told him I wanted to go with a Gloss Dark Grey Oil Base for the base and chip pan, and that I needed a Gloss and low luster White Oil base for the lathe, I also stated that I was kinda interested in their 2 part water based epoxy, He said thats not a good choice If I'm down to bare metal because there is a chance it will flash rust under the coating and peel off down the road.. He then said that proper preparation would be key to a Oil resistant and long lasting paint job, I said you have no idea...

He said to make sure I got it sanded, or have it soda blasted to get everything down to bare metal to remove any Rust, old Primer & Paint and then give it a few good washings with denatured alcohol to pull out any oils from the Lathe Assembly. I told him that I had used electrolysis to do all that, He gave me a very inquisitive look - So I pulled out my phone and showed him my photos... He was super impressed with what I had done and then stated that was allot of caustic mix, and starting asking all kinds of questions. For the next 20 minutes I was no longer a customer that had questions about paint - I was the interesting guy that could answer all his questions because he wanted to do something similar.

After that chat was all cleared up - he started to give me some tips and tricks and suggestions on spraying vs brushing and then gave me some free spray primer to try, and tried to give me some other paint to test out and some color charts, when all was said and done I walk out of there feeling like a king with all the attention I was getting, he even ordered the Low luster they didn't have in stock from another store and will have my order ready tomorrow.

Was a fun day at the paint store, who would have thought getting a lathe would be this entertaining.

 

[mikey]

Next time you talk to your buddy at the paint store, ask him what he thinks of spraying on a 50:50 mix of Phosphoric Acid and water onto metal that has just come out of an electrolytic bath. Stops all flash rust, etches the metal and can be painted over. Been using it for years and never had an issue with paint lifting and such but he's the paint expert and I would defer to him.

 

[Mr Mike]

Hello Mike..
Um - Questions..? does the 50:50 etch the bed ways too..? how do you neutralize the acid when your done..? do you use water based primers and topcoat..? Thanks Ill ask your question when I go get my paint..
I don't know how it is for you guys but normally when I go to the paint store and start asking questions, I usually get the Deer looking in the headlight expression from the people behind the counter, He is not my buddy I just had a good day at the paint store which is unusual.

 

[Laytonnz]

Hello Mike..
Um - Questions..? does the 50:50 etch the bed ways too..? how do you neutralize the acid when your done..? do you use water based primers and topcoat..? Thanks Ill ask your question when I go get my paint..
I don't know how it is for you guys but normally when I go to the paint store and start asking questions, I usually get the Deer looking in the headlight expression from the people behind the counter, He is not my buddy I just had a good day at the paint store which is unusual.

I'm actually a painter by trade and yes the people behind the counter give me quear looks often and refer me to the paint rep.

Look into adding driers if just oil based enamel or it'll take weeks to go hard.. I used terabine just don't use too much or the paint will crack and loose sheen in a few months.

I soaked my lathe with rags coverd in petrol. . . Not very PC but removed the oil.

+1 on the spraying.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Mr Mike]

I'm actually a painter by trade and yes the people behind the counter give me quear looks often and refer me to the paint rep.

Look into adding driers if just oil based enamel or it'll take weeks to go hard.. I used terabine just don't use too much or the paint will crack and loose sheen in a few months.

I soaked my lathe with rags coverd in petrol. . . Not very PC but removed the oil.

+1 on the spraying.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Hey Laytonnz..
I was thinking of adding a hardener to the oil based paint but I've never shot Oil ( well except Rattle Cans of Rust-oleum ) only Water based products. So I'm real worried about using my Compressor Hvlp Gun to spray it, Actually I'm thinking about buying the hand held Graco TrueCoat 360 airless.. because I don't have an air Desiccant filter for my Hvlp to stop moisture. and my regular airless Is a full size so it takes a Qrt just to fill the hose.. What do you recommend..?