Gorton P1-2 weird spindle?

[Defender92]

Hello everyone. I just picked up a P1-2 today. Never touched one before. But looked at a lot of photos and the original manuals. Looking at the spindle it looks different than what I’ve seen before. Is anyone familiar with this design? I tried to loosen the collet but can’t get it to move. I put it into an aluminum jaw vise but still didn’t want to crank down too hard.

Can this be converted to a standard Gorton collet holder? I want the ability to use different shank sizes. Is it loosened clockwise or counterclockwise??

Thanks!

 

[Braeden P]

Check if the bore has a taper, it might be set up for Gorton bits. Mine is a 3U and has a collet then adapters for the bits. I have a collet for grinding them and taper is barely visible.

 

[Defender92]

Braedon P, it is tapered. After posting I found some extra bits the seller included and they are labeled “tapered”. Do you know if it can be converted back to a standard straight collet style?​

 

[Defender92]

After doing a little more searching I found the original Gorton catalog with mentions a “midget chuck” for a tapered spindle. I found this in a bag of parts. The seller bought it from Franco in 2020. I guess they still sell parts for it.

The midget chuck is tiny! I can’t even get a 1/8 bit into it. Maybe I will turn the chuck to accept a 1/8 bit eventually.

I really don’t want to be limited to 1/8 bits or tapered bits. Does anyone know if this spindle is only tapered or can it be converted “back” to collets??

I really want more flexibility and larger bit options. There’s a used spindle on eBay for $500. But that’s almost how much I paid for the whole machine.

Ideally I would like to convert it to accept a modern more common and cheap collet. But I doubt that is an option.

 

[Braeden P]

I have a couple papers about the pantographs. My pantograph has the later model spindle with the collet and the book (1950) shows the early model with the taper. Your machine is not in if the papers I have. The spindle should be the same as the picture below. If you want to run larger sizes you will probably have to make a collet chuck that fits in the taper, just the midget chuck but with a larger collect, ER 11 gives a good range but may be too big to run off the taper.

 

[Defender92]

I have a couple papers about the pantographs. My pantograph has the later model spindle with the collet and the book (1950) shows the early model with the taper. Your machine is not in if the papers I have. The spindle should be the same as the picture below. If you want to run larger sizes you will probably have to make a collet chuck that fits in the taper, just the midget chuck but with a larger collect, ER 11 gives a good range but may be too big to run off the taper.View attachment 496396

Thank you. It’s so irritating. I was thinking I would be all set. I think I’ll use the midget until I can figure out an alternative. I’ll look into the ER 11 collets

 

[Braeden P]

I’ve got a small set that came with my mini cnc router, 1-6.5mm, they will let you run some small endmills but you probably won’t need much larger, pantographs aren’t made to use big endmills.

 

[Rex Walters]

Congrats! I've got the same machine, and it is my favorite tool in the shop.

My favorite fact: up is down, left is right, but clockwise is ... CLOCKWISE! (Just starts in a different quadrant, but this is actually important to figure out climb/conventional cuts.)

I've got Both a taper shank and a collet spindle. I won't sell either for love nor money, though. Worth keeping an eye on ebay (but good luck finding any deals).

It's not just for engraving, either. You can do light duty milling, profiling, and even some 3D stuff with a forming guide (mostly useful for simple shapes and doing stuff like engraving dials).

Enjoy. It's a great machine, and capable of some amazing things: https://air-logic.com/the-lords-pra...35, Fred Knapp engraved,, 0.100″, in diameter.

 

[Defender92]

Congrats! I've got the same machine, and it is my favorite tool in the shop.

My favorite fact: up is down, left is right, but clockwise is ... CLOCKWISE! (Just starts in a different quadrant, but this is actually important to figure out climb/conventional cuts.)

I've got Both a taper shank and a collet spindle. I won't sell either for love nor money, though. Worth keeping an eye on ebay (but good luck finding any deals).

It's not just for engraving, either. You can do light duty milling, profiling, and even some 3D stuff with a forming guide (mostly useful for simple shapes and doing stuff like engraving dials).

Enjoy. It's a great machine, and capable of some amazing things: https://air-logic.com/the-lords-prayer-on-the-point-of-a-pin/#:~:text=In 1935, Fred Knapp engraved,, 0.100″, in diameter.

Thank you!

3D stuff??? I’d be interested to learn that.

I’m probably going to purchase a collet spindle on eBay. It seems overpriced, but I guess these machines haven’t been made in many years. I’ll keep the taper spindle as a spare. And the price of original collets is another problem.

I’m pretty excited about this machine. It’s literally a mini Bridgeport. I was originally looking at Engravographs that are much less rigid. Many people are asking the same price for their Engravograph that I paid for my Gorton. It was a no brainer to me.

Another question about the pantograph… when going from letter to letter on the copy table. Is the stylus supposed to retract up and down? Or do you just flex the bar holding the stylus? The one New Hermes pantograph I have has a spring loaded stylus.

 

[Rex Walters]

3D stuff??? I’d be interested to learn that.

See that little nub on the other end of the spindle? That's a follower for any inverse/concave form you clamp above it. The clamp that holds the spindle is normally clamped down tight with the dog of a set screw riding in a groove around the OD of the spindle, preventing it from moving up and down. But properly adjusted, the spindle can move up and down under spring pressure if the dog is backed out. (That's the purpose of the large spring shown in the lower right of the drawing that @Braeden P posted.

There is a flat bar that extends out from the body of the mill over the top of the spindle. The bar has screw holes for mounting forms. You can custom make anything you want, but it needs to be an exact inverse of whatever you're engraving. It's most useful for simple shapes, like engraving relatively multi-digit numbers around the circumference of a small dial. Without the form, the digits away from top dead center won't be engraved deeply enough (for single digit numbers, it really isn't necessary to use a forming guide).

Gorton also used to sell an adjustable form that had a piece of spring steel with a screw that you could adjust for different diameter dials.

I’ll keep the taper spindle as a spare

Keep an eye out for sharp taper-shank engraving cutters. They are very convenient (no need to fiddle with collets.

If you do find a collet spindle, try to find one that comes with all the collets!