Getting from zero to hero?

[synfinatic]

Long story short, owning a lathe and a mill has been something I've been thinking about for a more than a few years, but I'm missing that key project to push me over the edge from lurker to owner. Partially, that has to do with having too many hobbies and how do I make time for another one? But many of my hobbies (motorcycles, guns/reloading, astronomy to name a few) definitely would benefit from being able to make parts by making chips rather than just 3d printing parts. I suppose I should done this 10 years ago before I paid someone to design and CNC a custom bracket to install a Suzuki SV650 motor in a Ducati 1098 frame for my race bike, but that was arguably far too complex of a project for a first time machinist.

Anyways, I sorta bought my first 3d printer on a whim... figuring I'd come up with uses for it and wow, did that pay off- I've used it a ton and have become proficient in Fusion360 to boot. I pretty much assume the same will be true for a lathe & mill. But my first 3d printer was $800 and takes up a few square feet on my desk. I built my 2nd one and it's bigger, but still sits on a small table in my office and I can move it with two hands. Honestly, it's not all the $$$$ that is holding me back as much as spending $$$$ and worrying it just sitting there because I ran out of things to do. Problem is right now at least all the projects I'd do are for the most part things I can just buy like this simple tool I bought last week: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CJZ83M/ It's hard to justify a few grand (or more) worth of equipment to make a $20 part once or twice a month. Logically, this makes no sense really.

Doesn't help that my neighbor across the street owns a fabrication shop and is willing to do occasional small jobs for free just because he's neighborly like that. Or that someone I know owns a Haas mill the size of a car and does CNC work for Tesla/NASA and is happy to do the occasional part for me at a reduced rate (assuming I wait a week or two). But I've always wanted to do things myself and learn. Also, I don't take advantage of my neighbor as much as I might because I don't want to abuse that relationship so I end up buying more crap off Amazon than making it myself since it's easier/faster unless what I need is totally custom which honestly isn't all that often.

Oh, and yeah, I'd love to learn how to weld- that would be super useful. In a perfect world it would probably be TIG because I suspect I'd end up working a lot in aluminum, but MIG is probably more realistic. I'll just drill holes and tap for AL I suppose. Would be great if I could learn to weld up some stands for the lathe/mill, but sorta seems like I'm just digging myself a really deep hole with a ton of things to learn just to get things setup and I'll be watching a lot of youtube videos to figure out how to tram things and hopefully not kill myself as I learn WTF I'm doing.

So yeah, I live in a house with a 2.5 car garage and no plans to move. Have 100A to a box in the garage so power (at least 120/240 single phase) isn't a real problem. Already have a 60gal compressor and small blasting cabinet and the random set of small tools (bench grinder, drill press, dremel, etc) that non-serious people who do limited fabrication end up accumulating over the years. Being in my mid-40's with a well paying tech job I can and prefer to buy-once-cry-once. At the same time, I have no delusions of grandeur that I'm going to quit my day job and become a machinist full time. Just hobbyist work and the random side job for friends. Perhaps when I retire I could see becoming a part time gunsmith, but I live in CA so I figure they'll outlaw that by then.

I've looked into classes at the local JC, but for various reasons it hasn't worked out (covid isn't helping obviously). I'm kinda at the point where I think I really should just clean the garage, re-do my storage to make room and drop $$$ on mill & lathe and then start figuring out what tooling I need based on what comes up and start making chips. But kinda scared about what I'm getting myself into...

So yeah, trying to figure out a realistic plan which will set me up for success and not regret my decision to invest in this hobby. Based on my research, I've been thinking something like a Precision Mathews PM-1340GT lathe since I'd love to be able to do rifle barrels some day, metric threading is super useful in astronomy and motorcycles, quality is important to me and I just can't see myself going any bigger. Not as sure about the mill... I have a friend who is far more experienced than I and his one piece of advice was: "Get something 500lbs or heavier." which cuts out a lot of the smaller mills, but I can see myself swinging something like a PM-833T(V). Yes, I know I need to budget tooling... that's doable. Kind figuring I should pass on the welder for now... I mean it would be great, but don't want to bite off more than I can chew at once right? Not sure if I'd ever convert the mill to CNC, so not too worried about that for now.

Anyways, how insane am I? What advice would you give to someone who has been thinking about this for a while, done his research but is basically afraid to commit AND really doesn't want to deal with selling off and upgrading machines in a few years after outgrowing them? I'm not someone who is interested in making model steam engines or pens to sit around and collect dust. Okay, doing things like that as a learning exercise is fine, but I'm definitely someone who likes making things to solve problems then stare at. Would love to make my own GEM mount for my telescope for example someday, but that's not a small project (and honestly not sure if I'd get the necessary accuracy out of hobbyist machines). Seems like the #1 thing (and #2, #3 ...) I'd end up making on a lathe/mill is tools for the lathe & mill which seems cool, but there's that chicken & egg problem.

Anyways, if you get this far, thanks for reading.

 

[sycle1]

Just get the tools and learn as you go.
It is easier than you think, just go steady and remember your safety and you will be fine.
Put it this way if you have the tools, you can make use of them.
If you don't have the tools, well whats the use in that.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

i have found the lathe to be the most useful machine tool, although i didn't get to buy one until i owned my own shop.
my first experiences with a machine tool was an old BP M head, reproducing obsolete one off parts for food processing machinery
the size was sufficient to make all but the largest of parts, but lacked power downfeed.
i got by and learned to love the lil machine after a couple seasons of cussin it.

in a way, i wish that i learned lathe skills before i went to the milling machine.

CNC is a wonderful tool, but i would strongly suggest manual machinery, as a pre-requisite to CNC technology.
once you work with and understand cutting forces, tool speed, travel speed, depth of cut, tool material selection and make mistakes manually- you are ready to move to CNC, (IMHO)

learning CNC will be another learning curve, but it inevitably be more and more common as time goes on.
you have the 3d printer, CNC mills and routers will do almost the same thing, but in reverse

if CNC appeals, by no means stop from achieving whatever interests you.

but the only wrong thing to do is nothing!
good luck, whichever road you travel!

 

[Winegrower]

Start thinking that you have a 0.5 car garage and go for it.

 

[Downunder Bob]

I am not familiar with any PM machines as they are not available here in Australia, however by all reports they are generally pretty good. The 1340GT Is made in Taiwan not china so it should be avery good machine. It is promoted as a suitable machine for gunsmithing, and I see no reason yo doubt that.

Apart from a slight difference in size and the colour it looks identical to my machine which was also made in Taiwan and from appearances probably in the same factory. The specs are also the same except the size. I have had my lathe now for just over 4 years and am extremely happy with it>

Go ahead have a talk to the folks at PM and put your money down I'd listen to their advice on what you need for accessories to get started, certainly 3 and 4 jaw chucks Quality BXA tool post, set of at least half a dozen tool holders to suit, A set of tools to suit both carbide inserts and HSS tools. A quality drill chuck, A live and dead centre. A fixed and a travelling steady Some of these may come as standard with the lathe
.
There are many people on this forum that do excellent work with similar, and also lesser machines, on telescopes, Check out member SAVARIN. also many others doing work on motorbikes and cars. I'm sure you will get excellent advice from these members.

Unless they are offering a very special deal if you buy a lathe and a mill at the same time, I'd be inclined to just get the lathe first, and get used to it before getting a mill.

There is no better way of turning $100 worth of good steel bars into scrap than with a lathe, so have fun and enjoy.

Good luck

 

[addertooth]

I went Lathe, then wire Welder (to make the table for the Mill) and then the Mill. But then, mixed in I also purchased metal cutting bandsaw (horizontal and vertical modes), engine hoist for lifting the mill, and a 12 ton press. I already had a belt sander, Grinder and drill press.

 

[macardoso]

Personally, I'd say get the lathe, then learn what you need out of a mill. Usually easier to find a guy who can weld than do machining.

Lathe is easy, bigger is better usually. Mill is a bit more complex. Are you mostly drilling holes, doing big facing cuts, or do you need CNC for complex work?

 

[MikeWi]

I went with a welder first because I needed it to repair some old farm equipment, but buying a lathe or mill wasn't even in the picture then. I bought a lathe next. I use the lathe far more than the welder. Still don't have a mill, but I could use one. I vote for the lathe first.

You have a leg up on most people with CNC because of your 3D printing experience and Fusion360 knowledge, but I add a vote for doing that later.

I can provide a crude analogy from a neighbor who is a mechanical engineer designing plane parts. He came up from a tool and die maker background, and understood the manufacturing process required for what he was designing. He found that most of the other engineers had never even touched a mill or lathe, and because of that, they designed features that looked nice on screen, but weren't required from an engineering perspective, and added many steps to the manufacturing process. He ended up teaching some classes for the other engineers so that, for instance, they understood what it meant when they required a 1/8" radius when a 1/2" would work just as well.

The point is if you start with the manual process, you'll have a much better understanding of what your designs will require of a CNC process.

 

[7milesup]

Logically, this makes no sense really.

Bahahaha.... Well, you are in the wrong bunch here if you think we worry about buying tools and it making sense! I mean, we have a thread "What did you buy today" that is over 150 pages long.
Anywho... welcome to the best machinist forum on the internet.

So I have a few thoughts, although I am officially just part of the peanut gallery. There is a writer, Kurt Vonnegut that has somewhat inspired me because of this...“I don’t think being good at things is the point of doing them. I think you’ve got all these wonderful experiences with different skills, and that all teaches you things and makes you an interesting person, no matter how well you do them.”
I have an 833T mill and really like it. My intention is to convert it to CNC at some point. I consider it a very capable machine with outstanding support from Precision Matthews. There is a guy that has converted the 833TV to CNC. --->833TV conversion<---
I also have a PM1022 lathe, which is way to small. The 1340GT would be a good choice.
There will be some that say to get a large Bridgeport style mill. Not saying those folks are necessarily wrong but sometimes the argument of weight=rigidity comes up. David Best, a forum member on here, has an excellent rebuttal to that argument. Look at this thread for his and Mark Jacobs 1340GT work and then search on Davids profile for his write up on rigidity. I don't have time at the moment to find the link...Best & Jacobs 1340GT

I would like to give you some more info and links but I have to run at the moment.
Again, welcome to the rabbit hole forum.

 

[mickri]

Make a list of everything you want and start looking. Check things off of the list as you get them. It really doesn't matter which comes first. You are going to want it all any way. And don't be in a hurry. Unless you have the budget to buy new be prepared to go on lots of wild goose chases looking at worn out machines not worth buying. Don't forget to add the cost of tooling in your budget. Tooling up a lathe and mill can easily exceed what you paid for the lathe or mill. That is one advantage to buying used. It will often come with lots of tooling. I looked for over a year before I found my mill/drill and lathe. I found the mill first and then a couple of weeks later I found the lathe. Estate sales can be a good source to find a lightly used well taken care machine at fair prices. Often the family is just wanting to get rid of grandpa's junk.

You are very lucky to have a neighbor and a friend who are machinists. A lot of us have nothing more than the internet to guide us. Talk to them about your plans. They will most likely know somebody with a machine just gathering dust that can be had for a song just to get it out of their shop. And if you run into a problem you can run across the street to get some help.