Further Down the Rabbit Hole, or Plasma Cutters, MIGs, and Chop Saws oh my!

[7635tools]

TIG really isn't that hard. It's just a slow process. MIG is way faster but not as clean as TIG. Before I bought my syncrowave 250, I practiced with OA for about two weeks. Same principal just different power sources. All of my welders are Miller. I have a millermatic 251 and a synchrowave 250. Just get a good name brand welder and it will last you a lifetime. I've had those cheap overseas welders and they don't hold up very well nor do they weld very good. As for the plasma cutter I agree with previous posts about getting a bandsaw first. You'll use that way more. I have a miller spectrum 625 plasma cutter that just sits and collects dust. Thinking I'm going to be selling it soon. Usually if I need to cut some stock I use the horizontal band saw. Or if I have to contour cut something I have a 16" Doall vertical bandsaw that works really nice. You can find these saws used at really cheap prices you just have to be patient and look. I got the Doall saw for $300.00. The horizontal saw I got for free from a fab shop that just purchased a new saw and we're going to throw the old one out. All it needed was new guide bearings and new pulley bearings.

 

[ACHiPo]

Yep, you're in the right place. That describes most of us. I've had excellent luck finding tools on Craigslist over the years. It takes patience, though.

As others have mentioned, the ubiquitous import 4 x 6 band saw is a great place to start. The same machine has been imported for at least 40 years and labeled under dozens of brand names. I got a used one for $45 on CL, and after a few hours of clean-up and adjustment it is a capable little saw. I buy the Olson carbon steel blades they sell at Farm & Fleet, and Big R. They sell for about $8 each, and are made in Wisconsin. They last quite awhile unless you try to cut hard steel, or don't have enough teeth in contact with the metal.

While I didn't make it to HF Friday after work, it is on my to-do list next week to pick up the 4x6 H/V saw. I really like Mike's idea for a brace and larger, sturdier table. That with some tweaking of the guides should make it a pretty solid performer.

I do a fair amount of welding, and the two processes you will use most are TIG and MIG. I have a higher end Everlast Power Pro 256 AC/DC TIG inverter machine. It can do stick welding and plasma cutting in addition to TIG. It is one of the few machines I bought new, and they run in the $2000 range. I weld aluminum, stainless, and mild steel regularly. I also like being able to use silicon bronze and aluminum bronze for brazing in addition to traditional welding. At work I use a Miller Dynasty 350 TIG machine (big $$$), and it is a killer nice machine, but I can do almost anything at home that I can at work. There is a learning curve to TIG welding, but it is very versatile. That said, there are some things that are just faster and easier to weld with MIG. Metal framework for equipment stands, etc. TIG is my favorite, but I have (and use) both. My advice is to get a 220v machine whether you pick TIG or MIG. You are much less likely to outgrow it and be looking for a bigger one in 6 months.

Ultimately I want to learn TIG--I think it will be the most useful for Al work--but there's a lot of stuff I'm itching to do in steel, for which the MIG will be fine. I've pretty much settled on a Miller 211, and I have 220, so that should be a pretty solid set up for me. The local welding supply shop seems great, and had some very reasonable options not only for the welder, but also accessories and safety gear. Another big plus--the gas bottle will fit in my trunk which eases my concern about not having a truck.

If you use plasma, you don't need a large quantity of air, but it does need to be very dry air. Moisture in your plasma torch will eat up tips fast, and leave poor quality cuts. I found a small refrigerated air dryer on CL for $200, and it makes a big difference. It will make your powder coat stick better too because static electricity and humidity don't work well together. Before I got it, I used a poor man's air dryer by coiling a copper tube through a large Rubbermaid tub filled with ice water, and then using a couple of water traps between that and the plasma torch or powder gun. If you chill humid air, it condenses the moisture so it tends to separate or fall out of the air. It doesn't matter whether you use a refrigerator or ice to get the job done.

That's good information on needing a compressed air drier. Will need to do some research on that, as it sounds pretty involved.

Once you've been bitten by the hobby machine and welder bug, you're doomed just like the rest of us. Be careful and have fun!

GG

 

[amesgang]

I am looking at a multi process welder from Eastwood, great reviews and warranty.
Eastwood MP200i Multi Process Welder

 

[brino]

@amesgang

That's about the same price I paid for my Lincoln MIG-only machine!
But note, I am NOT a name-brand snob when it comes to welders.....I also have an Everlast TIG machine that is excellent (for about 1/4 the price of an equivalent big-name brand).

If you do get that Eastwood unit, please start a new thread with a review.
Even if you start slow with how it was packed and ease of buying, then expand it as you explore it's capabilities.
I would really appreciate some first-hand feedback on that unit.

Thanks,
-brino

 

[ACHiPo]

I am looking at a multi process welder from Eastwood, great reviews and warranty.
Eastwood MP200i Multi Process Welder

Looks like a nice unit at a fantastic price (about half of the Miller 211 I'm looking at!). Look forward to a review!

 

[Rustrp]

I need to get home so as succinctly as possible. Wood cutting tools are for wood and metal cutting tools are for metal. There are exceptions to every rule. I have a Rigid 12" sliding compound miter that has only cut aluminum with WD-40 as a lubricant. For the standard tubing and solid stock cutting under 1" (steel) I have a Jancy cold saw I purchased about a year ago and I have hundreds of cuts on the original blade, cutting up to 2" x 2" x .250" tube. If you bury the blade across the flat side of 2" tubing, you will heat up and toast the blade. Speed/feed applies in everything you cut. On stainless steel tube, the most I can get is about 35-40 cuts without destroying the blade. The coldsaw carbide tip blades can be resharpened for about 1/3 the cost of new. The positive side of coldsaw vs. abrasive chop saw is the quality of cuts and no obnoxious dust or sparks. Cheap abrasive blades are that.

In regard to welding machines; Miller and Lincoln have really nice MP machines that run all the processes, based on welder experience. Just because the weld parameters are displayed on a DRO, you can get stuck MIG welding like any other task. A good MP machine set up for MIG with a 5# spool of NR 211 is the least expensive way to start out. Duty Cycle in a welder is a clue to quality. A 30% duty cycle means you get to use it 3 out of every 10 minutes before you have to allow it to cool down.

In regard to the addiction associated with metal working equipment, I'll close with; Dad, how long do welding machines last? Well, if you take care of them they last a long time. Then how come you have so many? Son, I think you've been talking to your mom again.

 

[ACHiPo]

I need to get home so as succinctly as possible. Wood cutting tools are for wood and metal cutting tools are for metal. There are exceptions to every rule. I have a Rigid 12" sliding compound miter that has only cut aluminum with WD-40 as a lubricant. For the standard tubing and solid stock cutting under 1" (steel) I have a Jancy cold saw I purchased about a year ago and I have hundreds of cuts on the original blade, cutting up to 2" x 2" x .250" tube. If you bury the blade across the flat side of 2" tubing, you will heat up and toast the blade. Speed/feed applies in everything you cut. On stainless steel tube, the most I can get is about 35-40 cuts without destroying the blade. The coldsaw carbide tip blades can be resharpened for about 1/3 the cost of new. The positive side of coldsaw vs. abrasive chop saw is the quality of cuts and no obnoxious dust or sparks. Cheap abrasive blades are that.

I've given up on any idea I had to pop an abrasive saw blade on my Dewalt compound miter saw. Will go with a tuned-up (and better bladed) HF 4x6 bandsaw. I always have an angle grinder with cut-off blades if I need abrasive cutting.

When you say "cold saw", do you mean a carbide-bladed chop saw http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...kkx_esRKTZN2s_g8YrhJGqpW3CnzjJpvaQaAr9d8P8HAQ, or one of the mega-buck true cold saws http://www.jegs.com/i/JET+Tools/526...tGYQ3ZIVNd92a7JhtHAKouHltrylKDoNwEaAlXJ8P8HAQ?

In regard to welding machines; Miller and Lincoln have really nice MP machines that run all the processes, based on welder experience. Just because the weld parameters are displayed on a DRO, you can get stuck MIG welding like any other task. A good MP machine set up for MIG with a 5# spool of NR 211 is the least expensive way to start out. Duty Cycle in a welder is a clue to quality. A 30% duty cycle means you get to use it 3 out of every 10 minutes before you have to allow it to cool down.

The Miller 211 I'm leaning toward has a 40% duty cycle. Not sure what the MP200 or MP215 duty cycle is?

In regard to the addiction associated with metal working equipment, I'll close with; Dad, how long do welding machines last? Well, if you take care of them they last a long time. Then how come you have so many? Son, I think you've been talking to your mom again.

 

[Rustrp]

I've given up on any idea I had to pop an abrasive saw blade on my Dewalt compound miter saw. Will go with a tuned-up (and better bladed) HF 4x6 bandsaw. I always have an angle grinder with cut-off blades if I need abrasive cutting.

When you say "cold saw", do you mean a carbide-bladed chop saw http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641810_200641810?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Power Tools > Saws + Accessories&utm_campaign=Ironton&utm_content=46461&gclid=Cj0KEQiA9P7FBRCtoO33_LGUtPQBEiQAU_tBgFIXHQooEkkx_esRKTZN2s_g8YrhJGqpW3CnzjJpvaQaAr9d8P8HAQ, or one of the mega-buck true cold saws http://www.jegs.com/i/JET+Tools/526...tGYQ3ZIVNd92a7JhtHAKouHltrylKDoNwEaAlXJ8P8HAQ?


The Miller 211 I'm leaning toward has a 40% duty cycle. Not sure what the MP200 or MP215 duty cycle is?

Mega bucks is relative to income. I was referring to cold cut saw in the abrasive chop saw line up, or the metal cutting saws with carbide teeth blades.
The standard abrasive chopsaw turns at about 2500-2800 RPM. The saws using carbide teeth are high torque turning at 1400-1450 RPM. Since I don't do this for a hobby from an income point of view, I chose quality and most of the metal cutting saws are all close to $500 with the blades at $100. All carbide teeth are not equal. The Evolution blade I have has been sharpened once already and I'm still using the Jancy blade with 200+ or more cuts. Of course I can't rule out a chipped tooth on the Evolution which will take out the next two or three.

If I were choosing an inexpensive horizontal band saw I would go with an Ellis. Understanding this is a hobby for you then the next best thing is to spend the money for good blades. I think Bob already called out a few brands but my go to for years has been Lenox. Again, speed/feed/teeth per inch/coolant. I'm fortunate to have business acquaintances who have CNC saws I can use and buy a blade occasionally.

The Miller or the Lincoln welders will suit your needs. I mentioned duty cycle because it's overlooked and most of the cheap imports overrate their duty cycles. If you're running .024 solid wire and need to weld something heavier that a 1/16" just use a propane torch to preheat. It's possible to pass a destructive bend test on 1" plate with the small machine, but it isn't a practical choice and again duty cycle comes into play. If you wish to go with the welder without purchasing the shielding gas bottle, flow meter (I prefer flow meter over a gauge), hoses etc. you can go with the self-shield (fluxcore) and shave off a few hundred $$. The fluxcore isn't as clean but it produces a good weld and has better penetration.

You can never have to many welding machines. In my defense; GMAW (MIG/Fluxcore) process uses CV current and SMAW/GTAW (Stick/Tig) process uses CC current.

 

[Tony Wells]

<snip> Another big plus--the gas bottle will fit in my trunk which eases my concern about not having a truck. <snip>

Big no-no there. At least here the understanding of DOT regulations disallow pressurized cylinders in enclosed vehicles. I am imagining it really applies to fuel gases, but no LWS will sell you a bottle of any gas to put in your car....trunk or back seat.

 

[Holescreek]

First ive heard of that. I deal with 2 welding shops for oxy/acet, argon and c02 and neither one has ever mentioned it being a problem when I load the tanks into my car. Maybe it's an extension of don't ask - don't tell.