Further Down the Rabbit Hole, or Plasma Cutters, MIGs, and Chop Saws oh my!

[ACHiPo]

Good advice from Mikey. Since I bought my HF horizontal/vertical band saw, my Milwaukee 14" chop saw has stayed in the cabinet. My sabre saws have pretty much as well, though they can be used on tighter radii and on cuts without an external starting point. The little HF saws are really quite useful in a home hobby shop, versatile, relatively cheap, and they work quite well after the inevitable setup and dialing in that is needed as received.

Ok I'm sold! A trip to HF on my way home is on my agenda.

I assume this is the "little" band saw?
http://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html

How are HF's bandsaw blades?

 

[royesses]

Download and print some HF 20% off coupons:
http://www.hfqpdb.com/

Roy

 

[Bob Korves]

How are HF's bandsaw blades?

Not so good, though they do also sell USA made blades at fair prices. Lenox, Starrett, and Irwin blades have worked OK for me. Carbon steel works for softer metals and doesn't cost as much, but bi-metal blades are pretty much needed for tool steel, stainless, etc. The trouble with that is changing the blade from job to job, which is a PITA, and also keeping track of what blade is currently mounted. As for the number of teeth per inch, the rule is 3--6-12--24. No less than three teeth in the cut. Six to twelve teeth in the cut is ideal. 24 teeth in the cut is the maximum. I won't go into why here, but those numbers seem to work pretty well. You can use less teeth if you have a really good and rigid hydraulic down feed, which the HF saw does not have, it is only an adjustable spring counterbalance.

 

[Bob Korves]

I assume this is the "little" band saw?

That is the one! Other vendors sell the same or very similar saw. HF has about the best price on them. Make sure to get a discount coupon and save 20%!

 

[brino]

now that I've dipped my toe into the metal working pool....I'm thinking of all the cool things I want to make ............ and I'm thinking I "need" a MIG welder, and of course some way to cut up the stock to weld, so I "need" a chop saw. Then I discovered how cool plasma cutters are. You get the idea.

Yes we sure do. Welcome to the addiction!

I've got an under-used 12" Dewalt compound miter saw for wood. The research I've seen says don't try to use wood miter saws as metal chop saws, but...what's the worst (ok, worst most probable) thing that could happen if I pop a composition blade onto the Dewalt to get me by until I decide if I really like the welding fabrication stuff?

I just talked to a friend yesterday that tried this. He managed to entirely melt the plastic dust chute on his saw. Apparently it shriveled right up, brittle and cracked and then fell apart when he touched it.

One other distinction about metal "chop saws" is abrasive blade (like on a grinder, but thin kerf) vs. the slow-speed dry cut blade. Those two things are vastly different tools and should be talked about separately. The noise level may be similar, but the sparks/debris, heat build-up in the work, quality of cut are very different.

So far I have been unable to justify a plasma torch. Luckily I do have a metal bandsaw, an abrasive chop saw (that has not been used since I got....), a slow-speed dry cut saw.

Your wood band-saw likely runs too fast for steel, even if it is sturdy enough and has the proper blade. Search this site for a couple very good low-speed conversions of band-saws to cut metal.

I would echo the suggestions to get a vertical/horizontal metal-cutting bandsaw. A good bi-metal blade will make it a dream to use.

For welders I started with a Century stick welder and that was great for heavy steel. Over the years I have picked up an O/A torch, Lincoln 180 MIG, and finally an Everlast TIG. Each step added new capabilities to my shop. And as @mikey stated, the step from flux-core MIG to gas-shield MIG is a big step in cleanliness and quality. The step up to TIG (at least for me) has been a trial in (in)competence. I often refer to my "TIG welding practice" as "TIG electrode sharpening practice". My biggest step forward there came from getting a high-end auto-darkening helmet. Amazing what you can do when you can actually see the work and the puddle!

This is getting too long. I'd better sign off.

Be safe and Have fun!
-brino

 

[Groundhog]

Very interesting idea of using the table saw. I also have an underutilized table saw (I use my Festool MFT or my Jet band saw for just about all wood cutting tasks). I'll need to check whether my table saw, an old Inca, has pulleys for speed adjustment. Come to think of it, the Festool circular saw is adjustable speed, so I could use it with a proper blade.
The biggest concern I have with mixing ferrous metal cutting with wood is fire--not a good idea--but aluminum should be fine.
All kinds of options! (I'm still jonesin' for a plasma cutter, though!)

Know what you mean about a plasma cutter. However I got this table saw set up for about $100. And actually, I didn't need to change speeds because the blades are designed to be used to cut the corresponding metal on a table saw at table saw speeds. I don't use the saw for wood of any kind so no problems with fire, but it could be a problem if you also cut wood. The chips go all over the place. I installed a bag (from HF) that snaps under the saw and catches a lot of the chips, but I also incorporate a vacuum hose to various shields. I can take pics if anyone wants.

 

[coherent]

By the way the Evolution saw looks pretty trick.

I bought the small evolution and the optional steel blade which I read was better for steel. First cut (slow and careful, with 1 1/2" thin wall mild steel tubing tubing... sparks and smoke. Luckily used amazon and returned it for a refund. Maybe others have better reports but I rate it a big thumbs down.

 

[bfd]

alright, you like your fingers! ok I have both a wood chop saw (Makita 10" sliding saw, and a 12" dewalt metal chop saw. if I remember correctly the Makita runs at 3400 rpm the dewalt runs at 1700 rpm or there about. I you want I can go and verify that for you. I have cut 3x3 steel on my chop saw the good thing is that it leaves very little burr when I'm done. bad news blades are very expensive in the 12" version. I just read some of the post and I am not talking about an abrasive saw. its a carbide tipped metal saw blade. I also have a Milwaukee 14" abrasive saw. I don't use it much because of the mess it makes and the big burr it leaves when done. if it was outside it would be better but that's another story. the saw I use the most for cutting steel and the like is my hand feed enco ( fong ru) chop type bandsaw. its small will cut 3x3 tube steel in one cut. the blades are expensive about 32 bucks each. I don't know if msc (enco) still sels them but for quick cutoff it works well. bill

 

[coherent]

I know what you mean about catching the bug. I've had a few plasma cutters. I have a cheap import lotos LTP5000d. I didn't expect much but must admit it cuts ok and the machine and consumables are really reasonable price wise. The high frequency arc start plays havoc with electronics so can't use it for my cnc plasma machine though. I also have a Hypertherm 45xp. Must admit the 45xp is the best I've used. Love it.

Another consideration is a small horizontal bandsaw instead of a chop saw. I bought the small Harbor Freight model some years ago. Made a better stand, and got some better blades and it's still going strong and used regularly. Much cleaner and quieter than the abrasive blade chop saws. Not as fast cutting, but straighter and cleaner. You can walk away and let it do it's thing and it'll make the cut and shut itself off.

 

[T. J.]

I'll give you my 2 cents on welders. First, you get what you pay for - same as everything else. However, the cheaper welders can be a nice start to get your foot in the door. Which process you choose depends mostly on what you plan on welding. MIG excels on light gauge stuff, stick on heavier stuff, with a lot of overlap in the middle. If your projects fit in that overlap range (eg. structural steel >1/8" thick), in my opinion, you will be a better welder in the long run if you learn to use a stick welder first. When you have those skills mastered, using MIG will be easy. Not so easy if you do it the other way around. If you do go with MIG, I second (or third?) Mike's recommendation to get one with a gas regulator.

As for multiprocess welders, I have been impressed with my Klutch 220SI from Northern Tool: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200631881_200631881
I got it mainly for its MIG capabilities since I have access to a couple of Miller stick welders. I have stick welded with it though and I will say that the smoothness of the arc is very nice (this is the first inverter powered welder I have used). Hobart, Miller, and Lincoln all have similar machines, which are priced accordingly with the brand. If you happen to buy the Klutch welder though, go ahead and buy a better ground clamp and replace it before you get started. The one that comes on the machine is junk.