Expectations of Chinese Lathes 12 x 36 or smaller vs. Taiwan units

[FortyFivePalms]

Hello Folks,

I am in the research and planning phase of buying a lathe. It would be used for hobby purposes, mostly to make small parts (brackets, clamps, etc) for my primary pastime, which is rebuilding and restoring 50s - 60s - 70s American cars. The largest lathe I would have room for would be something in the neighborhood of 12 x 36, but I would consider something slightly smaller (10 x 30?) if the right one came along.

I've already posted in the 'Buying' forum, but I thought I would invite others who already own their own Asian lathes to speak of their experiences and recommendations, pros & cons, etc. I'm mostly interested in buying new, but I would consider a used unit for the right price. There appears to be quite a premium in pricing for the Taiwan-made units, as opposed to the Chinese units; is the price differential justified, especially in the case of lathes with DROs/CNC and QCGBs? Can the Chinese shortcomings be overcome/corrected by an extremely skilled hobbyist (me)? Any Asian units that currently stand out as terrific bargains/deals?

Thanks in advance for your time and trouble!

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Hello Folks,

I am in the research and planning phase of buying a lathe. It would be used for hobby purposes, mostly to make small parts (brackets, clamps, etc) for my primary pastime, which is rebuilding and restoring 50s - 60s - 70s American cars. The largest lathe I would have room for would be something in the neighborhood of 12 x 36, but I would consider something slightly smaller (10 x 30?) if the right one came along.

I've already posted in the 'Buying' forum, but I thought I would invite others who already own their own Asian lathes to speak of their experiences and recommendations, pros & cons, etc. I'm mostly interested in buying new, but I would consider a used unit for the right price. There appears to be quite a premium in pricing for the Taiwan-made units, as opposed to the Chinese units; is the price differential justified, especially in the case of lathes with DROs/CNC and QCGBs? Can the Chinese shortcomings be overcome/corrected by an extremely skilled hobbyist (me)? Any Asian units that currently stand out as terrific bargains/deals?

Thanks in advance for your time and trouble!

I have a PM-1236 which I am pleased with, it does everything I ask it to do and I do not have any issues with accuracy. There are some things I have done to it such as modifying the DRO Y Axis scale position to get access to the cross slide lock but overall happy with it. If I were in the market and had the budget I would consider the PM-1236T to get the gear box that eliminates the need for change gears.

 

[markba633csi]

Personally I wouldn't buy anything without backgears. Unfortunately the trend seems to be moving away from backgears.
In fact, Grizzly no longer offers belt drive, backgeared lathes anymore in the 12" sizes- not sure about other sizes
I'm speaking of headstock backgears not change gears

 

[jwmay]

I had a Grizzly G4002, which has been discontinued. I was very happy with it.

Things I wish were different about it:
1: I wish the saddle lock screw had a square headed bolt, instead of a puny cap screw.
2: I wish the threading dial screw was more substantial, with a square head bolt.
3: I wish the handwheels didn’t have sleeves, which is arguably an improvement, but I didn’t like it.
4: I wish the compound locking tee bolts were grade 8, with better nuts too.
5: I wish it had a clutch on the leadscrew.
6: I wish the hard edges were removed, and the paint was thick and smooth.
7: I wish the base had better utility.
8: I wish it had a spindle brake.
9: I wish it had a higher top rpm than 1400.

I’ve never had a Taiwan machine. But that’s my whole wish list.

I have a little Atlas now. It’s old, old, old. It’s not as “good” as that Grizzly was. But it’s just right for now.

I haven’t priced the PM machines lately. But a couple years back, a comparable PM machine was less expensive than an equally outfitted Grizzly. Being confident in the machine you’re learning on is an under appreciated advantage that I personally needed. Having a good machine eliminates a lot of beginner troubles.

I will never own a machine that requires changing gear sets for different feeds/ speeds within the same convention. Nobody alive has that kind of time anymore.

As to your questions; I think you should consider if you want to work on your machine, or do work with your machine.

 

[jwmay]

Personally I wouldn't buy anything without backgears.

Without straying too far off, what modern hobby equipment has back gears? Asking for a friend. Lol

 

[coolidge]

Hello Folks,

Can the Chinese shortcomings be overcome/corrected by an extremely skilled hobbyist (me)?

Yes, however skill is no substitute for prior experience with Chinese lathes and overcoming their shortcomings e.g. you don't know what you don't know. Which is likely why you are here soliciting input, that's smart.

I started with a 1236 Chinese lathe, after MUCH frustration I sold it. Years later (this year) thinking I should have my head examined I purchased another 1440 Chinese lathe. WHAT? lol But I was armed with my prior experience.

I shopped all manner of Taiwan lathes from $9k to $24k, disgusted with my prior experience with the Chinese 1236 lathe. I decided I wanted a 1440 vs a 1236, larger capacity with a larger more stable stand <<< pay attention to that while shopping. With an enclosed gearbox that required minimal quick change gear swaps. Very important to do your research on this as some require an annoying frequency of swapping gears even on lathes that cost more.

Nevertheless I do my homework so I also researched the Chinese lathes and settled on the Grizzly G0709 as my Chinese 1440 lathe baseline at $6,600.

The problem for me with the Taiwan lathes is they were $2,000 to $3,600 more expensive for basically the same 1340/1440 size lathe vs the Grizzly G0709. So I would be spending money on things I really didn't want or need. I don't need variable speed so that narrowed things down. I don't want a Taiwan quality DRO or any DRO as I would be ripping it off and installing a top tier DRO I had prior experience with. Ditto for chucks and quick change tool posts which would get tossed aside for Bison SetTru chucks and USA Dorian tool post and holders. Even the motor, why pay for a Taiwan motor when I would be upgrading to a USA Baldor.

When the smoke cleared the Grizzly G0709 was the best fit for me. I was not disappointed, it arrived with a host of typical Chinese crap quality control problems, shocker. But I fully expected this and while annoying they were easily addressed or eliminated with my planned upgrades.

Two final factors, I'm now retired with unlimited time. The lathe isn't the most important machine in my shop, the mill is. If I'm going to spend big money on a machine it will be on a CNC Haas super mini mill which I may cram into my garage next year.

Hope this helps

 

[Ulma Doctor]

I own 2 Taiwanese Shenwai SW900B’s (1236) from the mid 80’s. They are both upgraded with 3 phase motors and VFD’s
I wouldn’t trade them for anything comparable
I haven’t had the need for backgears since the retrofits

 

[markba633csi]

The answer is: nothing modern has backgears anymore. That was my point. Slow speeds with good torque is achieved by other means now.
But there is usually a compromise or two- you have to give something up and/or pay more, or accept complicated electronics.
I like to do things on a shoestring budget, then I have more money left for cat food and beer-
LOL
I also like the simplicity of backgears. So many of these newer mini lathes have such pathetic, unreliable drives it's a shame.
You can't beat a backgeared, DC brushed motor drive with a good scr controller for price and performance in a small lathe
If you cannibalize a treadmill it's practically free

 

[matthewsx]

Another belt drive back gear 80’s Taiwan built 12x36 lathe here. Just about perfect for my use, also converted to VFD with a 3hp motor.

From what I read on here as long as you go with a good seller for new, the difference between China and Taiwan is mostly fit & finish and features.

Better gearbox would be a feature I’d want if I were choosing but the VFD does most of what I need since I don’t do a lot of threading.

Heavier is better so I’d take that into consideration when reading specs, gonna be a big difference between the 10x30 and the 12x36 so if you can fit the bigger machine go with that.

John

 

[Aaron_W]

The price difference is not entirely based on the Country of Origin. When manufacturers choose to have a machine made in Taiwan, it is often because they are intending it to be a better machine, as in features selected, not just build quality. When looking to sell a budget lathe, the vender is almost certainly going to be looking at China. However there are some higher end machines that do get made in China, because the vendors can offer a more featured machine for less than a basic Taiwan machine. The real issue is when looking at budget vendors (Bolton) and assuming all Chinese machines are cheap. When a vendor offers both Chinese and Taiwan made machines, the Taiwan made machines will almost certainly be part of their higher end line, but it does not mean China junk, Taiwan golden.

PM sells several machines that are similar except for origin, but in every case they are different machines beyond where they were made and the Taiwan made tend to have significantly better specs, as well as generally better manufacturing quality.

Precision Matthews sells two 12x36" lathes, the PM1236 made in China and the PM1236T made in Taiwan. The 1236T is $2000 more or about 40% more expensive.

1236 has 18 speeds from 65-1800, the 1236T only 12 speeds with a range of 90-1600.
1236 has a 2hp 240v single phase motor, 1236T is only 1.5hp, but has the option of single phase or 3 phase.
1236 weighs 1250lbs, 1236T weighs 850lbs
1236 has a bed width of 7-1/8", 1236T has a bed width of 7-1/2"
1236 has a spindle bore of 1-1/2", 1236T has a spindle bore of 1-9/16"
1236 is 18" wide and 61" long, 1236T is 29" wide and 66" long


In some areas the 1236 actually appears to be at least a little better (more power, wider speed range), and the 1236T pulls ahead in some areas. Although the 1236T is bigger, the 1236 is 400lbs heavier.
So these two machines are the same size (12x36), but they are clearly not the same machine other than build quality. Digging deeper into the specs there are certainly going to be other places where they differ and help to account for some of that $2000.

Not only is the 1236 cheaper, it comes with more standard stuff adding another wrench to the comparison.