Clutch change on a John Deere 5105 ml

[RandyM]

I have seven tractors that are John Deere. I will not buy an other John Deere. If they are going to treat there costumers this way I do not need them. There are to many other manufacturers I can choose from may they rot in hell.

John Deere did not do the this diss-service to you. It was the dealership you took it to. You can have the very same thing happen to you with another brand. Dealerships are completely independent of the manufacture other than they just sell manufacture's product. Your anger is misplaced.

 

[projectnut]

In this case I would agree that the problem lies more with the dealer than the company. However, for about the last 10 years or so the company has done all it can to restrict owners from maintaining and repairing their own machinery. It's hard to justify needing to call out a service rep to clear the trouble code after replacing a wheel bearing. Last year's labor rate was $75.00 per hour (with a 1-hour minimum charge) plus $45.00 a mile. The time and mileage start from the moment the tech leaves the dealership.

You can basically count on a minimum $500.00 bill just to get the tech onsite. That's a little tough to swallow after spending $500,000.00 or more on a tractor, or over $1,000,000.00 for a harvester. Most large farms in this area have 3 or 4 of the half million-dollar tractors and half a dozen of the cheaper models at only a quarter million per copy, and at least 1 of the million-dollar harvesters. You'd think the dealers would be bending over backward to please customers that are buying $5,000,000.00 or more in machinery. Instead, they've been locking down their machines to capture the maintenance and repair market.

To top things off the dealers don't have enough service technicians to cover all their customers in peak times. I know guys that have had to wait a week or more to get a service tech when a harvester broke down in the field. When that happens it's more than an inconvenience. Crops are lost, and income suffers. It's hard enough to deal with what mother nature throws at you, and even more infuriating when you can't get a service tech in a timely manner.

 

[rabler]

I'll start by saying I'm a hobby farmer, a small amount of land and some horses, not someone trying to make a living at it.

Certainly there are differences in the quality and integrity of different dealerships. But If I look at what Deere charges for a download a pdf of one service manual, $600+ for my 2013 tractor, exclusive of the engine which is a separate manual. Or its "Customer Service Advisor" on the order of $1800 for a one year license that covers the smaller utility tractors with a slightly reduced yearly renewal, it is certainly clear to me that they are not realistically allowing someone with a single tractor to do any real work on those tractors. Fortunately my tractor, an 85 HP 5085M, made around 2012, was just before they really started locking things down so that you had to have their software to replace many components. It does have an idiot light and you need their diagnostic software to get any service codes, which as far as I know is completely proprietary to them and there aren't 3rd party readers. If Deere goes to this length to lock you in to dealer service, I think they bear some responsibility for this type of dealership behavior. I suspect this is a game they are playing to allow the dealers to be more competitive on new equipment sales price and make up the profits on service once you are committed.

At the very least, I think @Nutfarmer should send a copy of his invoice along with details of this experience, and send it to whatever Deere corperate office is most appropriate, along with a copies to the dealer and to the California consumer protection agency (noting the cc: on the letter). The fact that they replaced several components that he did not request is certainly a valid complaint even if there isn't a direct law binding the dealer to a verbal estimate.

Would I buy another tractor from them? Not sure. I'd certainly investigate in depth how serviceable it is. I'd had an earlier Deere tractor (~2003) that didn't have a computer system and regret that I later sold that. Overall I feel the tractor is well built and has been pretty reliable. As it gets older and needs more service my frustration with the current service costs will likely increase. I have had issues with a small Kubota tractors that were more clearly dealership related, so I've seen true problems unique to dealerships.

 

[matthewsx]

I ran an independent outdoor power dealership for 5 years until 2014. People would come to me with all different brands of machinery but the JD owners were sometimes adamant about not going back to the dealer because of issues like this. I mostly worked on smaller stuff and I had a fairly good relationship with the local JD dealer so they would sell me parts (although come to think of it I eventually needed to get a relationship with another dealer downstate).

Anyway, it's businesses like this that made it hard for me as an independent. I always tried to be fair with my customers and communicated whenever something would take more work that initially estimated so they could make the decision for themselves. I hated that people would assume that I was trying to rip them off when they walked into my door, it made it hard to work with customers when they didn't have confidence they would be treated fairly. I flat out told folks this when the attitude came across that as a local business I couldn't expect to stay in business if I was ripping people off. Bad news travels quickly....

Sorry to hear about your experience with the tractor, I'm surprised they didn't try to sell you a new one right off the bat. With that high of a repair bill it might have been better to replace it but I totally understand not wanting to do the work yourself especially if you've been in there before and know what it takes.

Report them to your local BBB. not that it'll do much good but at least your complaint will be filed. Also, post your experience on Nextdoor, lots of folks read that and might even share similar experiences.

John

 

[projectnut]

I was in the auto repair business when the estimate laws came along in 1974. I couldn't believe the number of people that thought they could get anything and everything for nothing. The favorite scam was to bring the vehicle in for an oil change which was under the amount needed for a written estimate. No dollar amount was filled in on the work order, but the person did have to sign it giving the garage permission to operate the vehicle. The person who dropped it off would call back later and ask to add a tune up or some other expensive maintenance or repair. The rule was the business had to then give an estimate over the phone, note the time it was given, and get the name of the person authorizing the repair.

The scammers usually weren't aware of the fine points and often had one person drop off the car and a different person attempt to pick it up. When they were presented with the bill, they would claim to be the owner and say they never authorized the repair. The response would be that only the person who dropped off the car and authorized the repairs could challenge the bill or take possession of the car.

These kinds of tactics went on for more than a year after the laws were implemented. It took a lot of time and effort to make sure all the i's were dotted, and the t's were crossed. At the time these laws applied to passenger cars only. As time went on light trucks were included. Heavy duty trucks are still excluded from estimate laws as well as construction, agricultural, and marine equipment.

 

[Nutfarmer]

I agree it is a dealer problem. If you have Deere equipment this one dealer has every dealership from Washington state to the San Joaquin Valley. There is no choice what dealer to work with.

 

[projectnut]

When One of the guys I worked with got tired of living in the city he bought a farm. When I asked what he intended to grow he said he was going to be a NOT Farmer. When I asked what that was, he told me it was sort of a government job. He was going to put the land in the Conservation Reserve Program (formerly known as the Soil Bank). Then the government would pay him NOT to grow corn, Not to grow wheat, and Not to grow soybeans.

It sounded like a great idea. Unfortunately, you had to actually grow those crops for a set number of years before you could put the land in the program. It didn't quite work out as planned.

 

[Ulma Doctor]

Was lazy and asked the local Deere Dealer what it would cost to change out the clutch on the tractor. It’s nothing fancy , open cab hundred horse tractor. Was quoted 2000. Sounded reasonable so I went ahead and said ok. This was in September last year. Just now received the bill of 13000. How did it take three months to change out the clutch and just now to come out with a bill. The clutch is a wet clutch so the transmission has to come out. I changed out a power shift transmission in a 6300 a couple of years ago and it took me about 20 hours. I figured the the should be about the same or less. Looking at the bill there is a steering valve that was replaced for being cracked , a new steel hydraulic line and a main throttle sending unit changed out that were fine when the tractor went in. My best guess is something happened when they were splitting the tractor and didn’t have everything thing disconnected they should have. When the tractor came back the pot that worked before now didn’t and there were over twenty nut and bolt visibly missing. This is what happens when I let someone work on my equipment. After talking to the service manager they took off 1900 from the bill. Even so that is an unbelievable cost for a clutch replacement. The tractor after repair is only worth 20 thousand. Never underestimate the value of being able to do your own repairs or being able to machine your own parts. Sorry about the rant. I am still in shock.

dealers are for profit entities.
some of the shadiest people i have ever met are service managers.
the mentality is to throw parts at it until its fixed, regardless if the employee's are qualified to do the work, then bill the customer fat.
i took a dodge 2500 van to the dealer for radiator leakage issues, they quoted $3,500.00 for the job.
i made a few calls and found a pressure tested radiator for $500, got a couple hoses and did the job myself less recharging the A/C system
for a lot less than $3,500.

i worked on the same class of Deer's, that you are having problems with.
wet clutches just suck to do no matter the brand, but some are worse than others.
i can lend a hand if you are deciding to do it yourself

 

[Provincial]

I have a friend that took a John Deere road grader to the dealer (likely the same one as nutfarmer) in Oregon for a transmission repair. The bill was over twice the estimate, and took several months longer than promised. I believe that this is established policy.

On one hand, the manufacturers are consolidating dealerships in broad territories. This amounts to geographic monopolies. Geographic monopolies have become a way to control markets, and it extends to every level of business, possibly excepting retail. For example, in the mid-20th Century, Safeway grocery stores targeted small communities that could only support one supermarket. They would build a store in that town, hold prices down until the competition gave up, and then raise prices to throw off the cash to repeat the process in the next target. Quarry rock, sand & gravel, and concrete are commodities that are heavy and uneconomical to transport very far. National and multi-national companies have bought up the smaller producers and done like Safeway, raising prices for construction in the process.

Dealers on the borders between these local monopolies are loath to compete on price. It may be "professional courtesy" or just because they see no reason to give up the easy profit.

On the other hand, dealers have to hire from the available pool of wage workers. The best workers gravitate to private jobs at companies doing their own work and willing to pay the workers some of what they save on parts and dealer profit. Therefore, the dealers tend to have less productive workers, and the billing reflects that. I started working in Aviation in the early 1970's, and soon observed that no one made money in that sector until they moved their maintenance in-house.

I agree about the Service Managers. I had one experience where I was charged a core charge for a brand new clutch for a heavy truck. I ended up having to go to the shop owner and he almost made me threaten a fraud lawsuit before agreeing that the new clutch did not include a core charge. I'll bet they got away with that scam many times!

 

[Nutfarmer]

It is a monopoly in this area. If you have Deere equipment this is the only dealer. I sure miss the old dealer