Carbide end mill sharpening vs insert tooling vs throwing away and buying new

[Dustin beyer]

Also I mainly work with steel mild, chromoley, cast, stainless so hss cutters I don’t use much and the carbide, cobalt is soo damn hard

 

[Dustin beyer]

The problem is with Chinese clones is the raw material used in their construction just can not hold up to the needed tolerance and wear resistance needed for such a precision instrument especially when very harsh abrasive material is constantly getting into the guides. I’m the type that seems to break things no matter how hard I try not to and every time I’ve skimped and went with something made over seas it NEVER lasts but even USA made steel products even 100years old seems to always withstand and even tho u save a little in the long run you end up paying double or throwing stuff away!

 

[Dustin beyer]

The Deckel style grinder is very different than the clones. Some of the clones approximate the Deckel, some are truly universal in that they use either the R8 collet or the 5c collets. The original Deckel style collets are small and expensive and it is called a d bit grinder which is different than an end mill. I love my U2 R8 grinder because like pontiac428 it is indispensable at resharpening end mills, making special cutting tools and resharpening drill bits. It takes up for less room than a surface style tool grinder and runs on 110v. I’ve not had to buy any end mills since getting it as I have been able to resharpen everything down to 1/4”. YMMV.

How does it do on carbide? I don’t use much hss because I mostly machine steel

 

[C-Bag]

How does it do on carbide? I don’t use much hss because I mostly machine steel

90% of what I do is steel and 95% of my endmills are HSS. It’s about the wheel you have on it. Just like any grinder you use different abrasives for different cutters. With CBN wheels I can sharpen HSS or carbide. The CBN wheels are great because they can be really thin for doing relief cuts easier than a stone wheel. Thin wheels are made be able to resharpen carbide saw blades so will get into tight places.

I’m not saying it is an end all but like pontiac428 said if you can envision the necessary angles involved you can resharpen and make custom grinds that for me was invaluable. Case in point I made new steering knuckle bushings for my wife’s tadpole trike. The top and bottom of the bushings were the thrust surfaces and needed to be machined flat to fit. They were brass and typical end mills are 1deg dished, but I needed it with no dish. Typical rake is 5-7deg. Both will dig in and chatter in brass so I ground it 3deg with no dish. Worked perfect and when done reground to 1deg dish and 6deg rake. I’ve done a bunch of other things I’d never been able to do like reground the 15 dull endmills I got with my mill drill.

 

[BGHansen]

I have a Delta Milwaukee tool/surface grinder and a 5-C collet fixture for sharpening the face of end mills. There's a coffee can under the grinder with end mills needing to be sharpened; actually sharpening them is on my "list of good intentions". I haven't gotten to it because I have a lot of new end mills. The sharpening process looks relatively simple from the videos I've watched. I've got green wheels and regular aluminum oxide wheels (and a few diamond wheel dressers) when I get to it. I suspect the 1/8" end mills will end up in the trash though I'll give it a shot.

I didn't do the "business case"; here's some math. I paid $250 for the surface grinder and around $50 for the end mill fixture. The 5C collets will be borrowed from one of my lathes. I bought the green wheel off eBay, don't remember the price. Most of my end mills are Niagara carbide or HSS. MSC has single-end carbide Niagara's for: 1/8" - $11, 1/4" ~$20, 5/16" ~$30, 3/8" ~$40, and 1/2" ~$60. The HSS ones are roughly 75% of the carbide price. I probably have around $400 total into the grinder, sharpening fixture, diamond dresser, and the 5C collets (just need a few common sizes like 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" for sharpening the end mills). I'd guess I have at least a couple dozen end mills to sharpen and most of those are double-ended. In my case, it makes sense cost-wise as at least a dozen of them needing to be sharpened are 1/2" carbide double-ended at about $80 a pop from MSC.

For lathe insert tooling, those go in the trash. I didn't invest a lot in my plethora of inserts, they're mainly Chinese $1 a piece or less though I have a lot of Kennametal CNMG inserts for the lathe.

Bruce

 

[Dustin beyer]

Hello @Dustin beyer. Welcome to the best hobby machinist forum on the 'net.

Like you, I too wanted to build a tool and cutter grinder, not because it would make much economic sense but rather for pure enjoyment along with having a full understanding of how the machine works. I purchased the plans for the Acto Tool and Cutter Grinder from Machinery Plans listed below. But, I ended up buying a K.O. Lee tool and cutter grinder so building one is now on hold. It turns out that the K.O. Lee that I bought is quite worn, so who knows, I may end up using or selling the jig fixtures that came with it and either building the Acto one or buying something different.
I really want something like this for not only end mills, which I am not sure how often I will use it for that, but also to sharpen drill bits. Right now I have a lot of drill bits that need sharpening and yes, I could do them by hand, but I never get them 100% correct.

There is a member on here who built the Acto tool and cutter grinder... http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/home-made-tool-and-cutter-grinder.35679/

Also, Stephan Gotteswinter has modified a Deckel Chinese clone. Check out his channel, he does incredible work, and you might find a "few" other projects to put on your list. https://www.youtube.com/@StefanGotteswinter/videos

Sharpening End Mills 1

Design for, and method of making and using, an attachement for the Off Hand grinder for sharpening the end cutting edges of an end mill.

www.homews.co.uk

TINKFAB Pix

https://www.machineryplans.com/product/acto-tool-and-cutter-grinder/[/

http://

90% of what I do is steel and 95% of my endmills are HSS. It’s about the wheel you have on it. Just like any grinder you use different abrasives for different cutters. With CBN wheels I can sharpen HSS or carbide. The CBN wheels are great because they can be really thin for doing relief cuts easier than a stone wheel. Thin wheels are made be able to resharpen carbide saw blades so will get into tight places.

I’m not saying it is an end all but like pontiac428 said if you can envision the necessary angles involved you can resharpen and make custom grinds that for me was invaluable. Case in point I made new steering knuckle bushings for my wife’s tadpole trike. The top and bottom of the bushings were the thrust surfaces and needed to be machined flat to fit. They were brass and typical end mills are 1deg dished, but I needed it with no dish. Typical rake is 5-7deg. Both will dig in and chatter in brass so I ground it 3deg with no dish. Worked perfect and when done reground to 1deg dish and 6deg rake. I’ve done a bunch of other things I’d never been able to do like reground the 15 dull endmills I got with my mill drill.

you know I’ve always used hss with my lathe no problem so I always wonder why people have been so adamant on needing to use carbide in the mill? I’ve use plenty of hss with no problem I just figured if I invest a decent amount for a additional shop tool I would like to make sure It’s something that I regularly use and works *****en! I like your setups and advice! I’ve been fabricating all my life but newer milling. I do hvac for a living but like lots of you LOVE my machinist toys! What’s your options on these

 

[C-Bag]

you know I’ve always used hss with my lathe no problem so I always wonder why people have been so adamant on needing to use carbide in the mill? I’ve use plenty of hss with no problem I just figured if I invest a decent amount for a additional shop tool I would like to make sure It’s something that I regularly use and works *****en! I like your setups and advice! I’ve been fabricating all my life but newer milling. I do hvac for a living but like lots of you LOVE my machinist toys! What’s your options on these

i was told early on unless I was working on something exotic HSS was all I needed and I just needed to learn how to properly grind and hone them. I tried the standard grinds like in the How to Operate a Lathe, South Bend book. Was ok, but not until I went to a yard sale where a guy was liquidating tooling from an old machine shop and was down to the last dregs of tooling did I buy a box of lathe bits. Way cheap. And you could tell they were this guys everyday bits and they didn’t look like the book. So I tried several and for the first time I was getting somewhere as far as DOC and finish. For them the Chidor is mostly what I use. For endmills the Checkel.

As far as those two machines in the pics, dunno. Sorry, somebody more savvy will be along I’m sure, but I’d need more pics because I’m not familiar with either machine. They both look incomplete but its hard to tell and I don’t Facebook so wouldn’t be able to look a them, sorry.