Caliber and Actual Measurements

[David2011]

What one owns is irrelevant. My loading area would put many to shame, but I've learned a lot from a guy with just a Rockchucker tucked in the corner of his garage, and I've seen lots of decent loading done by a few with only a Lee loader.

GsT

Sometimes it's irrelevant; sometimes not. I look at boats, firearms, machinery, computers, reloading gear and automobiles all the same way. Does it do what I need it to do? If yes, then it's good enough.

If I'm loading hunting ammunition or heavy handgun loads my 40+ year old Rock Chucker is all I need. For the most part, my ancient JR2 is adequate as a single stage press but the RC is so much easier to use that the JR only gets put on the bench on rare occasions. All of my reloading tools are mounted on steel or aircraft ply plates with matching bolt hole patterns so presses, trimmers, powder measures and the like can be moved to suit the task easily.

If I'm loading for a USPSA or Steel Plate match I don't want to spend hours loading for a match. I've had a Dillon 550 since 1991. When I started shooting 2500 rounds or more/month the 550 was painfully slow for the time I had available to load. Casting that many bullets every month took a lot of time but I liked casting. My Dillon 650 will crank out 300 rounds of good quality .40 S&W in 20 minutes. It's not bench rest good but it's completely adequate for action pistol matches.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

The only reason I have a shotgun press is because when I lived in SE New Mexico a fellow Hunter Ed instructor shot Cowboy Action. I shot one match with the cheap ($22/100 at the time) Winchester Game and Target shells. I had gotten to the point of not even feeling the shot with my trap gun so I thought they would be fine in a side by side 12 ga 20" coach gun. I was mistaken. Those "mild loads" beat the snot out of me in that short barreled lightweight shotgun. After that I scrounged up some used shot and loaded more appropriate loads for the coach gun. Shot has gotten so expensive that you have to be reloading really high end equivalent ammunition to match the cost of factory loads. In New Mexico the gun range and RC fields were both less than 10 minutes from the house so access to both was easy. I shot at least twice a week. You know what it's like in the Metro Houston area. Ranges are few and far between and most are not very good. If I start shooting USPSA again I'm looking at about an hour and 15 minutes to the range. Maybe it's getting time to sell my fun guns and just keep the serious ones.

I truly do understand. Most of my guns are colectables, black powder or inherited with great sentimental value but I do have a few modern guns and they all fire. We have a farm up in west Texas and as a kid I was always hunting something but it's grown up so much now that you can't hardly swing a cat without hitting something you didn't want to. Here of late I am loading for the serious stuff when I load...

 

[pontiac428]

If I'm loading for a USPSA or Steel Plate match I don't want to spend hours loading for a match. I've had a Dillon 550 since 1991. When I started shooting 2500 rounds or more/month the 550 was painfully slow for the time I had available to load. Casting that many bullets every month took a lot of time but I liked casting. My Dillon 650 will crank out 300 rounds of good quality .40 S&W in 20 minutes. It's not bench rest good but it's completely adequate for action pistol matches.

I drive an hour and fifteen every month for USPSA, and twice a month in summer. That gives me four different ranges/clubs at that distance, and I'm lucky to live in region 1 with access to several tier 2 matches during the season. I almost always shoot major, but I'm getting burned out on all of the work it takes to make quality, reliable rounds in .40 in a reasonable amount of bench time. Full-body push through debulging, primer pockets due to the influx of crimped .40 police brass, hand seating primers (thanks for nothing, Dillon), and 100% gauging is now the norm for me, because one FTL or other silly malf while on the timer is too many in competition. Funny how it creeps like that from lessons learned, but I'm seriously spending 4 hours on the reloading bench for each match to be 100% certain that I won't blame the ammo or the gun. It's starting to feel like I'm doing something wrong by ensuring I'm not doing anything wrong. 9mm goes through in half the time due to its design, but I've been on .40 for almost 20 years, even using it in IDPA BUG class, where I've shot two state championships at 180 PF out of stubborn commitment to the caliber. This year will be focused on limited minor for me because the nine is so much faster to load.

 

[GeneT45]

I drive an hour and fifteen every month for USPSA, and twice a month in summer. That gives me four different ranges/clubs at that distance, and I'm lucky to live in region 1 with access to several tier 2 matches during the season. I almost always shoot major, but I'm getting burned out on all of the work it takes to make quality, reliable rounds in .40 in a reasonable amount of bench time. Full-body push through debulging, primer pockets due to the influx of crimped .40 police brass, hand seating primers (thanks for nothing, Dillon), and 100% gauging is now the norm for me, because one FTL or other silly malf while on the timer is too many in competition. Funny how it creeps like that from lessons learned, but I'm seriously spending 4 hours on the reloading bench for each match to be 100% certain that I won't blame the ammo or the gun. It's starting to feel like I'm doing something wrong by ensuring I'm not doing anything wrong. 9mm goes through in half the time due to its design, but I've been on .40 for almost 20 years, even using it in IDPA BUG class, where I've shot two state championships at 180 PF out of stubborn commitment to the caliber. This year will be focused on limited minor for me because the nine is so much faster to load.

I don't know if Case-Pro is still being made - they seem to go in and out of business, but that is one real cure for .40 dilemmas. The RollSizer might be another, but I've never seen one IRL.

Or switch to Single Stack and shoot a real caliber... ;-)

GsT

 

[verbotenwhisky]

I drive an hour and fifteen every month for USPSA, and twice a month in summer. That gives me four different ranges/clubs at that distance, and I'm lucky to live in region 1 with access to several tier 2 matches during the season. I almost always shoot major, but I'm getting burned out on all of the work it takes to make quality, reliable rounds in .40 in a reasonable amount of bench time. Full-body push through debulging, primer pockets due to the influx of crimped .40 police brass, hand seating primers (thanks for nothing, Dillon), and 100% gauging is now the norm for me, because one FTL or other silly malf while on the timer is too many in competition. Funny how it creeps like that from lessons learned, but I'm seriously spending 4 hours on the reloading bench for each match to be 100% certain that I won't blame the ammo or the gun. It's starting to feel like I'm doing something wrong by ensuring I'm not doing anything wrong. 9mm goes through in half the time due to its design, but I've been on .40 for almost 20 years, even using it in IDPA BUG class, where I've shot two state championships at 180 PF out of stubborn commitment to the caliber. This year will be focused on limited minor for me because the nine is so much faster to load.

Back in the mid 80's I was racing and was drawn into chasing points, I took something I loved to do turned it into a job and learned to hate it. When I stopped racing it took me 3 or 4 years before I was interested in messing with it again, full circle I love hot rods and I love messing with performance but I now refuse to get into racing where I am required to be there on certain days/times. I am careful now about turning my hobbies/joys into sure nuff businesses.

 

[David2011]

I drive an hour and fifteen every month for USPSA, and twice a month in summer. That gives me four different ranges/clubs at that distance, and I'm lucky to live in region 1 with access to several tier 2 matches during the season. I almost always shoot major, but I'm getting burned out on all of the work it takes to make quality, reliable rounds in .40 in a reasonable amount of bench time. Full-body push through debulging, primer pockets due to the influx of crimped .40 police brass, hand seating primers (thanks for nothing, Dillon), and 100% gauging is now the norm for me, because one FTL or other silly malf while on the timer is too many in competition. Funny how it creeps like that from lessons learned, but I'm seriously spending 4 hours on the reloading bench for each match to be 100% certain that I won't blame the ammo or the gun. It's starting to feel like I'm doing something wrong by ensuring I'm not doing anything wrong. 9mm goes through in half the time due to its design, but I've been on .40 for almost 20 years, even using it in IDPA BUG class, where I've shot two state championships at 180 PF out of stubborn commitment to the caliber. This year will be focused on limited minor for me because the nine is so much faster to load.

When I lived in more rural areas I thought nothing of driving up to 2 hours to matches. The drive is now through Houston and not a pleasant drive.

Could you elaborate on “thanks for nothing, Dillon”? At one time I had primer difficulties on both the 550 and the 650. The bench must be rock solid. Bedrock solid. Bolt the bench to the wall. If the press vibrates it will cause primers to flip on their sides or upside down. A well known 1911 smith told me to use nothing but CCI primers in Dillon presses. I don’t know what the difference is but he was right. They almost never feed incorrectly. I was getting 2% to 4% failures of primer feeds on my 650 with Federal small pistol primers. With CCI it’s maybe 1 in 500 to 1 in 1000. Still not perfect but very good in comparison.

On both presses the primer feed mechanism has to be kept clean. The 550 is far more sensitive to cleanliness than the 650. Deburr the corners of the primer slider. Make sure that the sides, top and bottom of the slider are free of burrs. Clean the slider and its pathway with lighter fluid or Hoppe’s No. 9. Leave it dry. Lube holds powder and residue. Make certain that the primer insertion punch is perfectly aligned with the cartridge by loosening it, raising it into the feed position without a primer and then tighten the screws. On the 650, just make sure that the springs are in good shape and that there’s no burned or fresh powder in the disc area. On the 550 make sure that the slider is extending fully on every stroke if it’s not picking up a primer 100% of the time.

There are lots of tiny details to get right but once done the adjustments shouldn’t need attention for years. As I mentioned earlier, I can load 300 rounds of .40 with cast bullets in 20 minutes. They all pass the case gauge and feed flawlessly.

One other thing I do for .40 is to mark my brass with an annular stripe in a distinctive Sharpie color. I only want to pick up brass that came out of my gun. I’m shooting an STI Edge so I don’t have bulging issues. Before I load range brass for the first time it goes through my Case Master Jr. It’s a one time thing; doesn’t have to be done again. If I do get unmarked brass, like when a bunch of FBI guys were shooting factory ammunition and leaving their brass on the ground, it goes through the Case Master Jr. before loading. I might have had one or two FTFs when I first started loading .40 but that would have been over 15 years ago. The only failure to extract was when the extractor broke after about 50K rounds. Replaced it with a Wilson bar stock extractor.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

When I lived in more rural areas I thought nothing of driving up to 2 hours to matches. The drive is now through Houston and not a pleasant drive.

Could you elaborate on “thanks for nothing, Dillon”? At one time I had primer difficulties on both the 550 and the 650. The bench must be rock solid. Bedrock solid. Bolt the bench to the wall. If the press vibrates it will cause primers to flip on their sides or upside down. A well known 1911 smith told me to use nothing but CCI primers in Dillon presses. I don’t know what the difference is but he was right. They almost never feed incorrectly. I was getting 2% to 4% failures of primer feeds on my 650 with Federal small pistol primers. With CCI it’s maybe 1 in 500 to 1 in 1000. Still not perfect but very good in comparison.

On both presses the primer feed mechanism has to be kept clean. The 550 is far more sensitive to cleanliness than the 650. Deburr the corners of the primer slider. Make sure that the sides, top and bottom of the slider are free of burrs. Clean the slider and its pathway with lighter fluid or Hoppe’s No. 9. Leave it dry. Lube holds powder and residue. Make certain that the primer insertion punch is perfectly aligned with the cartridge by loosening it, raising it into the feed position without a primer and then tighten the screws. On the 650, just make sure that the springs are in good shape and that there’s no burned or fresh powder in the disc area. On the 550 make sure that the slider is extending fully on every stroke if it’s not picking up a primer 100% of the time.

There are lots of tiny details to get right but once done the adjustments shouldn’t need attention for years. As I mentioned earlier, I can load 300 rounds of .40 with cast bullets in 20 minutes. They all pass the case gauge and feed flawlessly.

One other thing I do for .40 is to mark my brass with an annular stripe in a distinctive Sharpie color. I only want to pick up brass that came out of my gun. I’m shooting an STI Edge so I don’t have bulging issues. Before I load range brass for the first time it goes through my Case Master Jr. It’s a one time thing; doesn’t have to be done again. If I do get unmarked brass, like when a bunch of FBI guys were shooting factory ammunition and leaving their brass on the ground, it goes through the Case Master Jr. before loading. I might have had one or two FTFs when I first started loading .40 but that would have been over 15 years ago. The only failure to extract was when the extractor broke after about 50K rounds. Replaced it with a Wilson bar stock extractor.

Out of everything I have loaded I have suffered more issues with .40, I have loaded thousands of rounds of .380, 9mm and 45 without any issues. But .40 seems to be very finicky about the crimp and the smaller frames are very troublesome to load for.

 

[pontiac428]

I don't have issues anymore, but my loading time for match prep has doubled as a result of preventive measures. It's probably been two or three years since I've had a cycle failure. The push-thru base sizer isn't for brass from my guns; I shoot Bar-Sto hand fitted barrels or CZ pro shop stuff, but it seems no matter where I go, brass disappears before it hits the ground. Maybe not so much recently, not many of us still shoot .40 so it gets left behind for me to pick up at the end of the match. Big matches have a no-pickup rule to keep things running smoothly for the range cadre. I buy a lot of once-fired from an outfit in Moses Lake, WA (I like to keep my money in-state if possible) that is on contract for LE range clean-up. They supply tumbled bulk brass from Speer mostly, due to their virtual monopoly on LE contracts, with a lot of S&B mixed in. Sometimes, there's that heinous WMA brass with the mil crimps, which is why I run everything through a swage die, plus it helps resize the pocket after the base debulger. That gives me total reliability on primer insertion, so it's worth the time. The primer seating, however, is never consistent (thanks Dillon). I use a Square Deal B, not so much because I am cheap, but because I have it in both .40 and 9 and it works when it works. Well, it works except for seating primers to depth and seating some bullets consistently; I'm sure it's due to the ram design. I've re-built it twice over, and replaced the parts that affect primer seating like the priming arm assembly, plunger(s), and the shellplate bearing parts in addition to Dillon's rebuild kit parts. Still never ran 100%, so I hand seat each primer with a Lyman squeeze prime tool. Depending on the pistol, I will also run each loaded round through a single stage seater, a habit that carried over from crimping 9mm. It's a lot of steps, and I could probably save a ton of time with a bigger and better Dillon, but I have limits to my faith in and love for progressive reloading. Well, that and I have Dillon catalogs from 1990 still in my stack that have prices to make me cry. I have a friend who is a commercial loader with a bench full of 1050 presses who would snicker about that, but he doesn't do competition; he specializes in rare lever gun and antique revolver ammo. So I continue to put in the extra time for surety's sake.

 

[David2011]

Ahhh. No disrespect to the Square Deal B as I used to have one. It is not the smoothest of the Dillons I had it, 2 550s and a 650 (not exactly deliberately) at one time. The first to go was the extra 550. The bench looked good with one each of the Dillons. The SDB had 9mm and .45 ACP toolheads but after a while I found that I would rather change calibers on the 550 than use the SDB. Between it's crowded stage area and the way the lever felt I just didn't like it as much as the 550 and I ended up swapping it for the shotgun press I mentioned previously. I use the 550 for all of my medium caliber, moderate volume handgun cartridges and .30-'06 for the Garand and primarily use the 650 just for .40 and .223. All of my .45 Colt, .44 Mag and most rifle is loaded on the single stage side of the room. I'll load up to 60 rounds on the single stage presses. If I want more than 60 I'll set it up on the 550 but my self imposed rule is to not load less than 100 on any progressive press unless it's already set up for that cartridge, powder charge and bullet. It's just not worth the setup time to do less than 100 otherwise.

I know a guy up in NE Texas that shoots USPSA Open and loads on a single stage press. He must spend all week loading for a 3-4 hour match.

 

[pontiac428]

Without the extra QC, the 45 on a single stage probably isn't too too bad for USPSA. The volume is usually less than 200 rds per match. When I lived in Reno, I shot long range highpower and F-class every week and it didn't kill me to keep up with that level of loading and prep. But anything mag-fed really deserves to be done on progressives. Recently, I started case forming 20 VT from .223, that's the most time-consuming reloading I've ever encountered! Enough to make me seriously wonder why I'd chose that caliber...

Edit: Oh, my recovery rate on brass from USPSA and IDPA matches is maybe 15%... but 5 cent no-tumble brass isn't bad, either.