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I like using Coleman camp fuel (naphtha) for degreasing, it's easy on paint and evaporates fast. Low odor.
Mark S.
Mark S.
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Buying a lathe, what tooling should I get/avoid?
- Thread starter ttabbal
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PM1127vf-lb: a wise decision, Sir.
I should think a solid wood bench, properly designed to not sag, would work fine. Lots of guys use a mobile tool cart as a base and I think this is the way I would go - cart plus a really solid wood top and a 1/4" thick steel plate on top of that. That way you can make leveling adjusters for the lathe and not have to mess with also leveling the base.
Cleaning should be easy. Paint thinner/mineral spirits usually works well. I have not used Naptha as Mark suggested but I have read that it works well, too. White Scotchbrite and WD-40 also works well; this is what I used on my lathe.
At some point, buy a machinist's level to level the lathe. You will need it. There have been many discussions on this subject so read up and make up your own mind on what you need.
Beyond that, you will need a good hydraulic oil for the headstock and other sites and some way oil for the ways and you should be good. Oh, as you clean up the lathe, shoot some oil into every oil port and make sure they are wide open and flow oil well; trust me, you want to do this.
B
British Steel
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I'm going to be Mr Negative - don't buy the cheap Chinese brazed-on carbide tooling, unless you have a SiC wheel to rough it to shape and a diamond lap/wheel/hone to get a good edge, indexable carbide (*positive rake*) tooling's usable out of the box and HSS is easier to grind and get a good edge.
The brazed carbide tools come blunt with the wrong geometry and you'll struggle to get a good finish and a decent cut, particularly the final finish cuts (unless you don't take cuts below about 0.020)
Now for Mr Positive:
I agree with Mikey about the 1127 over the 1030 (although I've had neither, I've worked on another importer's versions of both), a camlock chuck makes life a lot easier (as does a QCTP and a hatful of holders), the 1.5" spindle bore makes setups for long work easier, and the wider the bed the more accurate the lathe will be. "Toolroom" lathes used to be gauged by how much wider the bed ways were than the centre height, both for rigidity of the bed and for the "base of the triangle" when considering cutting forces and the effect of any (necessary) clearances on the positional accuracy of the tool tip.
Dave H. (the other one)
The brazed carbide tools come blunt with the wrong geometry and you'll struggle to get a good finish and a decent cut, particularly the final finish cuts (unless you don't take cuts below about 0.020)
Now for Mr Positive:
I agree with Mikey about the 1127 over the 1030 (although I've had neither, I've worked on another importer's versions of both), a camlock chuck makes life a lot easier (as does a QCTP and a hatful of holders), the 1.5" spindle bore makes setups for long work easier, and the wider the bed the more accurate the lathe will be. "Toolroom" lathes used to be gauged by how much wider the bed ways were than the centre height, both for rigidity of the bed and for the "base of the triangle" when considering cutting forces and the effect of any (necessary) clearances on the positional accuracy of the tool tip.
Dave H. (the other one)
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One thing I would add to what the other guys have said is, and it depends on where you live. Call in and make yourself known to some local machine shops, explain that your just a beginner at a new hobby and ask if they have any bar ends or offcuts that are going in the scrap bin. I've found that about half of them will be quite generous with what they will give you, use this material for practice work. I have found that I rarely ever have to buy material for projects, mostly get it for free or just a couple of $. Good luck.
Depending upon where you will be degreasing your new lathe, Kerosene or Diesel. Use terry/ cotton cloths to remove the schmoo. As for the headstock oil, most older American Iron say to flush out the headstock with Kerosene; I don't know what PM recommends but be sure to flush it first. Then refill with fresh new oil, I use DTE (Mobile) in my machines. Some people recommend using ISO68 hydraulic oil from Tractor Supply or Northern Tool. I don't like that idea, I'm not an oil expert but in my mind a quality circulating oil from Mobile, Exxon, Chevron or the like is far and away better than the generic stuff from a discounter. You can get the oil from Grainger, MSC or any other mail order tooling supplier. Free pickup at Grainger or MSC if one is near to you.
One more recommendation, IF you decide to try carbide, buy a good carbide tool holder and indexable carbides not the brazed on stuff from Harbor Freight. Good luck with your new lathe, you have a very generous employer
One more recommendation, IF you decide to try carbide, buy a good carbide tool holder and indexable carbides not the brazed on stuff from Harbor Freight. Good luck with your new lathe, you have a very generous employer
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Agree with other's comments and specifically with Mikey/British Steel, that unless one is only making small parts, the 1127 and 1228 are really the only entry level lathes that I would recommend. The other major advantage over other manufacture's lathes in this size class is the D1-4 mount, 1.5" spindle and power feed on the cross slide. I also agree with British Steel that I would start out with purchasing an insert tool holders, CCMT/CCGT 21.5X or 32.5X inserts to get you started (a 21.XX insert fits in a 1/4" circle, 32.XX a 3/8" circle, tool holders are for a specific sized insert and a specific shape). The Shar's set below has other insert styles which are also very useful. A lot less fuss, and once the tooling alignment is set you do not have to realign anything when you change the insert. The inserts come in many types and designs, but I primarily use a CCMT 21.51 or 32.51 coated insert for steel and super alloys, and a CCGT 21.51 or 32.51 uncoated for aluminum and softer alloys. An insert can last me up to 6 months and they can be had for a few bucks. By starting off with insert holders, it is one less learning factor as to figuring out how to turn metals. As you get proficient, you can get into grinding HSS for specific profiles or applications.
I would recommended a different insert holder starter kit, some thing like this one:
http://www.shars.com/products/index...ders/1-2-indexable-carbide-turning-tool-set-1
You can buy a blade parting tool/blade for around $35 (probably with a 1/2" HSS blade), but you will most likely have difficulty parting a 1.5" rod on this this size machine with a 1/2" blade height. You also will not get a square cut because of the blade deflection. There are some shank style cutoff holders that might work, these take GTN-3 inserts. I believe this grooving parting tool holder is in the set above. You would be better off cutting the piece with a saw and then turning the end on the lathe. You can grind HSS blanks for grooving.
http://www.shars.com/universal-parting-blade-tool-holder-7-type-107-axa
http://www.shars.com/products/index...-screw-clamp-deep-grooving-and-cut-off-holder
You will need a number of AXA holders for all the insert holders, best to get 6-8 up front and order with the holders to save on shipping. Although Shar's offeres decent quality tooling at the price level, they tend to be much more expensive when it comes to shipping.
I would recommended a different insert holder starter kit, some thing like this one:
http://www.shars.com/products/index...ders/1-2-indexable-carbide-turning-tool-set-1
You can buy a blade parting tool/blade for around $35 (probably with a 1/2" HSS blade), but you will most likely have difficulty parting a 1.5" rod on this this size machine with a 1/2" blade height. You also will not get a square cut because of the blade deflection. There are some shank style cutoff holders that might work, these take GTN-3 inserts. I believe this grooving parting tool holder is in the set above. You would be better off cutting the piece with a saw and then turning the end on the lathe. You can grind HSS blanks for grooving.
http://www.shars.com/universal-parting-blade-tool-holder-7-type-107-axa
http://www.shars.com/products/index...-screw-clamp-deep-grooving-and-cut-off-holder
You will need a number of AXA holders for all the insert holders, best to get 6-8 up front and order with the holders to save on shipping. Although Shar's offeres decent quality tooling at the price level, they tend to be much more expensive when it comes to shipping.
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Thanks for all the info! I had already decided to avoid the brazed carbide, at least for now. I like the idea of the inserts, but does this lathe have the speed to use them properly? I'm sure I'll end up trying some, I tend to like trying out everything and getting a feel for how things work for me. I like that Shars set. A little bit of everything. I've also tried grinding tool models in keystock. I like how they turned out and will be trying HSS as well. Obviously, I haven't tried cutting with them, but so far they look good and are very sharp, even without honing. For cutting tools, I'm avoiding Harbor Freight. They are fine for a lot of stuff, but the forces involved in turning steel make me want a higher level of quality control.
I would never have thought of using fuel for cleaning. I do have mineral spirits, and WD40.. I think I have some Coleman fuel as well, I'll have to try a bit and compare.
I would never have thought of using fuel for cleaning. I do have mineral spirits, and WD40.. I think I have some Coleman fuel as well, I'll have to try a bit and compare.
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Slower machines will not be able to use the speed capabilities of carbide inserts, but they can still use the convenience and wearing potential. For achieving a good surface finish at lower speeds, buying sharp positive rake inserts and/or sharpening the carbide inserts might help.
Last edited:
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- Nov 23, 2014
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Not adding anything, just what I started with for tooling and other accessories and what have been added over the years. You'll get the bug and will add more tooling as time goes on. It can get obsessive buying more tools for your tools!
Really nice convenience is a QCTP and a variety of tool holders. I use a lot of carbide inserted tool holders; many options out there but a decent start is the 1/2" triangular sets of 5 different holders for around $30-$40. You'll likely find in actual use you don't use all 5.
HSS cut off T-shaped or double angled sides for parting. The QCTP kits usually include this holder.
Drill chuck for the tail stock and some center drills.
Live center for the tail stock.
Some 3/8" and 1/2" HSS blanks for turning, threading, etc.
Micrometer and/or dial caliper for checking diameters.
Dial indicator and mag base for checking run out (4-jaw set up) and/or checking the Z-position when set to the end of the carriage.
Test indicator for checking run-out also, though a 0-1" will do the same thing.
Center gauge for setting up your threading tool.
Chip brush (and tweezers).
Cutting fluid, I prefer non-sulfur based to keep the stink down.
Some luxury items are a scissor type knurling tool, works soooo much better than the bump style in my experience.
Telescoping gauges for checking bores/inside diameters
DRO
Taper attachment if available.
Collet chuck/collets - collets are great! I have one lathe that's set up with a collet chuck and another with a set-tru 3-jaw chuck. Collets should be very accurate for staying on center if removing work from the lathe for a secondary operation, then returning to the lathe. Plus, they don't mar the surface of your work as easily as a really tight 3-jaw chuck.
Dedicated roll-away for your lathe tooling. Mine has all of the collets, spiders, tool bits, measuring tools, dedicated drill bits, etc. for quick use.
Optivisor for close up looking at work. I wear glasses with bifocals and catch myself peeking over my glasses for a better look. Use a magnifier (not very ofter), but do have a pair of safety glasses on the head stock for protection if peeking over the glasses.
More and more tool holders. I have around 35 on one lathe and 15 on the other. It's really convenient to switch between a triangular bit to a D diamond bit to a W bit, etc. without swapping tools in the tool holders and resetting center.
Some photos attached of my QCTP holders, tail stock tooling set up and HF roll-around tool rack dedicated to the G0709 lathe. Yes, I have gone to excess on a number of things. I'm sure you'll come up with better ways to organize your accumulation with WILL happen once you jump in! Enjoy the adventure!
Bruce
Really nice convenience is a QCTP and a variety of tool holders. I use a lot of carbide inserted tool holders; many options out there but a decent start is the 1/2" triangular sets of 5 different holders for around $30-$40. You'll likely find in actual use you don't use all 5.
HSS cut off T-shaped or double angled sides for parting. The QCTP kits usually include this holder.
Drill chuck for the tail stock and some center drills.
Live center for the tail stock.
Some 3/8" and 1/2" HSS blanks for turning, threading, etc.
Micrometer and/or dial caliper for checking diameters.
Dial indicator and mag base for checking run out (4-jaw set up) and/or checking the Z-position when set to the end of the carriage.
Test indicator for checking run-out also, though a 0-1" will do the same thing.
Center gauge for setting up your threading tool.
Chip brush (and tweezers).
Cutting fluid, I prefer non-sulfur based to keep the stink down.
Some luxury items are a scissor type knurling tool, works soooo much better than the bump style in my experience.
Telescoping gauges for checking bores/inside diameters
DRO
Taper attachment if available.
Collet chuck/collets - collets are great! I have one lathe that's set up with a collet chuck and another with a set-tru 3-jaw chuck. Collets should be very accurate for staying on center if removing work from the lathe for a secondary operation, then returning to the lathe. Plus, they don't mar the surface of your work as easily as a really tight 3-jaw chuck.
Dedicated roll-away for your lathe tooling. Mine has all of the collets, spiders, tool bits, measuring tools, dedicated drill bits, etc. for quick use.
Optivisor for close up looking at work. I wear glasses with bifocals and catch myself peeking over my glasses for a better look. Use a magnifier (not very ofter), but do have a pair of safety glasses on the head stock for protection if peeking over the glasses.
More and more tool holders. I have around 35 on one lathe and 15 on the other. It's really convenient to switch between a triangular bit to a D diamond bit to a W bit, etc. without swapping tools in the tool holders and resetting center.
Some photos attached of my QCTP holders, tail stock tooling set up and HF roll-around tool rack dedicated to the G0709 lathe. Yes, I have gone to excess on a number of things. I'm sure you'll come up with better ways to organize your accumulation with WILL happen once you jump in! Enjoy the adventure!
Bruce
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
- Messages
- 5,071
The insert holders in the Shar's set are neutral rake , so do not take a lot of Hp. I usually run my carbide at 1/3-1/2 the recommended SFM, which is for more production machines and flood coolant. I have no problems with surface finish, and my normal cutting RPM is around 500-1200 RPM depending on the stock diameter and material. At the price of that set, you can't go wrong. Better inserts will work better because of profiles, coatings, etc. HSS may produce better finish at much lower speeds and feeds, but given that an insert last me 6+ months under fairly hard use, I just do not want to be playing around with grinding tooling if I do not have too. If a insert does go like when I am threading, I just replace it and do not have to worry about alignment or positioning. YMMV.