Burke vs Rongfu mill?

[jwmay]

Type “small knee mill” into the search bar at your preferred online marketplace.
Doing the same thing in the search bar of HM will yield lots of information as well.

 

[jwmay]

Learn the names of them by searching threads in HM including the terms “small knee mill”. Then do your basic for sale searches wherever you normally shop for such things.
Burke Millrite, Delta Rockwell, and Clausing all made smaller ones. The Burke being the largest of small ones. I usually sorted by table size. Mine has a 6x24 table. The RC mill had an 8x29. You can get a Bridgeport with a 9x32 I think.

My first knee mill

Came out ok I think.

www.hobby-machinist.com

There’s an old picture of my shop (page 5) with a small knee mill on the left and a RC mill on the right. The knee mill is closer to the camera by about 4 feet. This should give you some idea of the “space savings?” you’re envisioning.

 

[Aaron_W]

I appreciate the input. Footprint is a big factor, and it's hard for me to grasp how big some of the floor-standing knee mills are from a few (bad) pictures. I would love a "big" mill, but I definitely can't get a big-big mill.
Any suggestions on how to look for a smaller knee mill?

If height is an issue you are more limited as knee mills tend to be tall. Rockwell and Clausing both made small vertical mills right around 6 foot tall. The Burke / Powermatic Millrites stand about 6-1/2 feet. Most other "not" Bridgeports run 7-8 feet.

There are a few imports in the Rockwell and Clausing size. Currently sold by Grizzly and Harbor Freight, but you can find older ones under a variety of brands. Enco and Precision Matthews have / had some mills in the Millrite size. Lots of smaller oddball vintage and import mills are out there, so keep your eyes open and don't fixate too hard on the better known. These more unusual mills often go for much less money since nobody knows what they are.

 

[matthewsx]

Here's mine....

Samson Vertical Knee Mill

Picked up this mill yesterday and got it moved into my shop. Yes, I already had a Hardinge BB5 and an RF30 clone but when this thing came up on Craigslist I really wanted it bad. Not only is it the biggest mill I could possibly fit in my space, but it's badged Samson like my 12x36 lathe. Now...

www.hobby-machinist.com

John

 

[Aaron_W]

Here's mine....

Samson Vertical Knee Mill

Picked up this mill yesterday and got it moved into my shop. Yes, I already had a Hardinge BB5 and an RF30 clone but when this thing came up on Craigslist I really wanted it bad. Not only is it the biggest mill I could possibly fit in my space, but it's badged Samson like my 12x36 lathe. Now...

www.hobby-machinist.com

John

Perfect example of the kind of odd ball machines that show up. I bet you can find the same mill under a couple of import brand names, but the only time it will get specifically mentioned as an option is like now where somebody says "this is what I found, and its fits what you are looking for.

There are some good deals on early (70s-80s) Taiwan made lathes and mills from the period when they were directly competing with the still in production smaller US machines. Many are a lot better than the current imports, but as imports usually don't have a vintage price premium attached to them.

Your Samson lathe and mill are great examples of this as if I recall correctly you got both for very reasonable prices.

 

[matthewsx]

Perfect example of the kind of odd ball machines that show up. I bet you can find the same mill under a couple of import brand names, but the only time it will get specifically mentioned as an option is like now where somebody says "this is what I found, and its fits what you are looking for.

There are some good deals on early (70s-80s) Taiwan made lathes and mills from the period when they were directly competing with the still in production smaller US machines. Many are a lot better than the current imports, but as imports usually don't have a vintage price premium attached to them.

Your Samson lathe and mill are great examples of this as if I recall correctly you got both for very reasonable prices.

Yep, I love 'em both. Spent less than $2500 for the pair.

Key is knowing what you're looking for and being able to show up with cash at the right time. Sometimes that's when they're first listed like the lathe, sometimes it's a month later when it hasn't moved like the mill.

Being confident that you can move them is also important. The best deal in the world isn't if you drop the machine trying to get it home.

For the OP, there's nothing wrong with either of the options you listed. Just realize that as soon as you pull the trigger something better will likely show up. As long as you're happy with what you get it'll be fine, if not you can always try again when finances allow.

John

 

[Swiftfingers]

Thanks for all the examples and tips! I agree, there always seems to be a better deal as soon as you finalize a purchase.
There's an Index Super 55 not far from me for $1k, but again I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the size of this thing. The listing says it's 53x55x76 and 1735 lbs. I'm going to mark it out on the floor in the garage.
Edit: that's too big lol

 

[matthewsx]

Thanks for all the examples and tips! I agree, there always seems to be a better deal as soon as you finalize a purchase.
There's an Index Super 55 not far from me for $1k, but again I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the size of this thing. The listing says it's 53x55x76 and 1735 lbs. I'm going to mark it out on the floor in the garage.

So, you're at that place where you're getting super itchy to have a mill.

Slow down, take a few deep breaths....

Wells Index is a great American company that's still in business. However, if the machine in question has a B&S spindle taper it might not be the best choice since there is so much R8 tooling available cheap. If it has a full set of collets and other tooling it might be a great choice but $1000 is getting pretty close to used Bridgeport clone territory.

If you have a normal sized garage you'll probably be able to fit a standard size Bridgeport or clone. You can do great work with less, but lots of folks have been where you are and ultimately go with a full size mill. There's a reason this type of machine is still favored in shops around the world.

Tape the size out on your garage floor, Precision Matthews has detailed drawings showing the various size machines and the footprint they take up. Think about the future projects you're likely to do, are you into cars or motorcycles? Any other hobbies that require machine work of substantial size?

As stated above, there's no reason not to start out on something small and work your way if needed. Plenty of folks are happy with their RF30 mills and do great work with them. Just make sure whatever you get it's in as good condition as possible.

John

 

[Swiftfingers]

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into the Precision Matthews footprints!

Part of the "itchiness" is a boring office job. Idle hands and all that.

 

[Aaron_W]

When you mark out the space in your shop, don't forget to include room for travel. My Clausing is only about 2-1/2 feet wide but needs about 4 feet to allow the table its full range of movement. Don't forget to leave some room for your hands to comfortably operate the hand wheels.

Some mills may need some space behind as well for head movement in and out and for swing side to side.