Atlas vs the others

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Back to the subject of Timken bearings, I disagree that South Bend used good ones and Atlas used cheap ones. In the first place, Chinese production aside, bearing grades tended to be produced like resistor tolerances were. First you made 10,000 of one type or value. Then you tested (graded) until you got as many as you needed of the highest tolerance or grade. Next you lowered the criteria and continued testing or grading for the second level. Etc.

In the second place, Atlas (and Sears) advertising in the late 30's and 40's claimed that the Timken bearings used were "specially selected" or similar terms. Differing only in the specific adectives used from ads from South Bend and others. You can't claim (or at least you can't prove) that Atlas lied and South Bend didn't. The bearings in the Atlas machines have a date engraved on them. Those that you buy at the auto parts store (besides more than likely not being Timken to begin with) usually don't, although may years ago, I had a fair number of ex-auto parts store Timken bearings that did. The date is undoubtedly the inspection date and not the date the lathe was assembled as it isn't unusual to find (there have been enough examples reported here and on other lists) dates on the two bearings in a single machine differing by up to a year. In the derogatory way in which the term is typically used today, Atlas lathes weren't "cheap". They were "relatively inexpensive".

Robert D.
 
First, thanks for all the feedback. Yesterday I bought a Craftsman 07042. I has the Timken bearings, one three jaw chuck by Union Mfg, a steady rest (probably for a 10" South Bend, bolted to a riser so it could be used with this lathe), a forward-reverse switch and some other tooling. The gears look like they are hardly used and some of the change gears look new. it will probably take me of couple of weeks to get it going. The Blue paint is in very good condition. Hard to believe something made the year I was born looks so good. Its been stored in a garage under a tarp for I don't know how many years so it is quite dirty. The ways and lead screw are covered with heavy grease. There are some minor parts missing and the small crank on the apron has one end broken off. I want to take each element apart and make certain everything is in order and then lube it before I start it up.

Some questions:
Where can I get a parts list and user manual for this Lathe?
How can one determine if an electric motor is reversible?
Where is the serial number located.
I am looking for a copy of "How To Run a Lathe" and I understand Atlas has published a similar book that is very good, is the Atlas book worth buying?

The person I bought the lathe from also had another lathe with several parts missing from the cross slide. There is no name on the machine that I could find. It has double flat Vs on the bed. He was going to give it to me free for purchasing the Craftsman, but not knowing the maker I wasn't certain I could get parts for it. The only distinguishing feature was the change gear information on a small, embossed, brass plate on the headstock. It looks like it was made to be driven by flat belts about 2 inches wide. The lathe is located in Auburn, CA.

The last time I used an engine lathe was in college in 1963 so its going to take some getting used to. Once I get the lathe running my first project will be making wooden screws and nuts to restore three antique wooden plow planes.

Dave Nelson
 
jgedde said:
Zamak is an alloy of zinc and aluminum with a teensy weensy bit of magnesium and sometimes copper. It is basically a high grade "pot metal" using ultra-pure zinc to prevent "pest", casting inclusions and voids. Problem is, while it has good wear characteristics, it isn't very strong in tension and becomes brittle with time due to a reaction with hydrogen (the exact chemistry eludes me at the moment).

Zamak is still an active product and is available in several "flavors."

John
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Interesting comment. In the early 1960's I worked for Dr. Nathan Tiner at Astropower Labs, a subsidiary of Douglas Aircraft. As I recall, Tiner discovered that the hydrogen atoms would migrate to sharp intersections in manufactured parts, such as the roots of gear teeth. We were always concerned about hydrogen embrittlement in the parts of airplanes, specifically Cadium plated items.

Dave Nelson
 
Dave,

You can still get some parts from Clausing. 800-323-0972. Ask for Old Atlas Parts. Beyond that, eBay is probably the next best source, followed by lists like this one.

For a users manual and parts list, for the time being look for one on the 101.07403. The only one around that I know of also covers the 101.027430 and 101.027440 which are 24" and 36" between centers versions of 101.07403 with Quick Change Gear Box added. I think I uploaded a PDF of it into the Downloads section a week or so ago. If I didn't, I'll put it there tonight. I am currently working on correcting a parts list specifically for the 101.07402 (and several other models) and will make it available when done.

Another manual that you should also get is "Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinist's Tables". Current or final version still available from Clausing for $35.00. Earlier versions (the book first came out in I think it was 1937) can often be found on eBay. You might want to look at an early to mid 40's edition on eBay or elsewhere. Both versions would prove useful as some of the photos of the actual lathe were updated over the years so for example there are photos of my 3996 in the final version but not so many of yours. The operating and actual machining instructions and tables as well as the various machining tables are you might say timeless.

Pretty much any electric motor that you might find on an Atlas or Craftsman lathe is reversible. Whether it is reversible without any modifications to the wiring inside or not is another matter. Instead of giving a treatise on how to determine whether any motor is currently configured to be reversible, which would take several paragraphs, why don't you post a good photo of the motor, its nameplate and of the opened up junction box on it to the site here. I would suggest starting a new thread with a pertinent Subject.

The serial number should be on the same nameplate as the model number, found on the back of the bed if someone hasn't removed it. Some people have also reported finding serial numbers stamped on the bed at either the extreme right front or left front. However, it's also been obvious in some such cases that the serial numbers weren't Atlas serial numbers. And a lot of lathes don't have anything stamped there (like mine).

For information on the flat belt machine, I would suggest browsing around the Lathes.UK site looking at photos. URL is http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/index.html which will take you to the Atlas section. Navigate up a level or two to look for other brands. I can say that I never heard of Atlas building either a flat belt or a V-bed lathe.

Robert D.
 
Dave,

The Southbend "How to Run a Lathe" is probably the best manual. You should join the SB Yahoo group and you will find a copy in the "files" section. It's also one of the most active lathe lists and even though I don't own a SB, I find the info the valuable.

I'm sure there is a Yahoo group for the Craftsman lathes as well and I'm sure you will find valuable info in the files, photos and messages there.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

Steve
 
Steve,

What's the actual exact Yahoo Group name? Yahoo's group search capability is basically terrible (a search for "south bend lathe" turns up at least 11 pages of hits, with "South_Indian_Beauties" on page 1!!!) and so far about 8 South Bend lathe related groups including both southbendlathe and southbendlathes. Some are clearly subsidiary groups of others, like some of the Atlas/Craftsman groups.

Dave,

The main Yahoo Atlas/Craftsman group is Atlas_Craftsman.

Robert
 
Steve,

I'm no stranger to Yahoo as I'm on about 25 different Groups there, some dating back more than a decade (my membership, not the Group age). But the link you posted did confirm I had guessed right as to which one you were actually referring to. Thanks.

Robert D.
 
macher said:
Some questions:
Where can I get a parts list and user manual for this Lathe?
I am looking for a copy of "How To Run a Lathe" and I understand Atlas has published a similar book that is very good, is the Atlas book worth buying?

The person I bought the lathe from also had another lathe with several parts missing from the cross slide. There is no name on the machine that I could find. It has double flat Vs on the bed. He was going to give it to me free for purchasing the Craftsman, but not knowing the maker I wasn't certain I could get parts for it. The only distinguishing feature was the change gear information on a small, embossed, brass plate on the headstock. It looks like it was made to be driven by flat belts about 2 inches wide. The lathe is located in Auburn, CA.

Dave Nelson
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Dave,
I might have soft copies of the manuals noted. I also know a guy in Auburn that might want that second lathe. PM me so we can exchange info.
-Ryan
 
macher said:
i have started looking for a small bench lathe for my garage shop. I am looking for a 10 or 12 inch machine. The comments I see on some web sites don't hold the Atlas in very high esteem. Based on what I see an Atlas is not much good for anything. Is this a "MAC vs. PC" type of argument or is there some basis to what I have read. We had South Bend, Logan and Sheldon in our college shop. The South Bend and Logan worked good, but we always seemed to have problems with the Sheldon.

I will primarily be making parts for my antique woodworking tools, wood and metal screws, and some other small parts for basket handles.
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I just started on this forum and I do not want to rub anyone wrong but I worked in a Machine shop for 25Yrs all of are machines are manual no CNC. I built my first metal turning lathe but came across an 10 inch Atlas for a song and could not turn it down. There are some design flaws but nothing that any of us could not repair or design better. I just recently rebuilt the cross feed and updated it with bearings, a direct read dial and a cross feed nut that is twice as long as the stock one with wear adjustments. I also installed a 2 1/2 horse variable speed treadmill motor to it and other small modifications. I have used the counterparts of this lathe and found no huge differance, I dont tend to blame a machine because I could not make do what I wanted instead I try and figure out how to make it work better and that is part of the fun of it.

As for the the Zamack (pot metal) parts if and when they fail you can buy almost exact replacement change gears from Browning and yes you can weld the atlas pot metal with Aladin 3 in 1 rod with a Tig welder I have welded mountains of this stuff and it welds quit well.. I for one see no problem with the Atlas Lathe it may in its day been inexpensive but is far from being a cheap lathe.. Ray
 
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