- Joined
- Dec 1, 2012
- Messages
- 28
3 N 1 is a great Idea, Im going to look for some today.
-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
atlas spindle bearing oil cups
- Thread starter aforsman
- Start date
Yeah, the little 3-in-1 bottle is perfect size for adding drops here and there. If I can find a larger bottle for about the same cost, I'll use it to refill my little one.
I hate to get off-topic, but since I started this one maybe no one will complain.
)
I just got the drivetrain on the lathe I'm restoring running tonight. It's very smooth and quiet. I didn't know what to expect since I've read several posts about them being noisy. Needless to say I'm very happy. I just needed to tell someone who may care - there's only so much excitement that the wife can muster about such things.) I still have a lot of pieces-parts to put back together, but it's all downhill from here. It should be ready to go with a few more hours of work.
I hate to get off-topic, but since I started this one maybe no one will complain.
)I just got the drivetrain on the lathe I'm restoring running tonight. It's very smooth and quiet. I didn't know what to expect since I've read several posts about them being noisy. Needless to say I'm very happy. I just needed to tell someone who may care - there's only so much excitement that the wife can muster about such things.
) I still have a lot of pieces-parts to put back together, but it's all downhill from here. It should be ready to go with a few more hours of work.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2013
- Messages
- 162
Hi Aforsman,
My 6" Atlas has no felts in the oiling cups nor on the spindle shaft, just the bearing shields to retain some oil. The manual shows no felts. Since it is basically a total loss system, just keep it oiled, doing so before usage or during or both - your schedule. Any excess will be expelled almost immediately. As for the type of oil, here is my situation. I leased an Esso (Exxon) station back in the early 70s and that is when I purchased the lathe. I would use whatever can was open and clean basically disregarding which viscosity motor oil I used. I live in southern PA now and the lathe is in my garage. I use Amsoil exclusively because I sell the stuff on the side and always have some around. It has basically been lubed with detergent motor oil since ownership. I have no rusting issues and the bearings are original. Detergent oil holds moisture in suspension and it does not release it until the oil gets to engine operating temperatures. As for weight, a straight 20 is a good choice. A multi viscoscity such as a 20W-50 is a 20 weight until the oil gets up to operating temperatures. With the operating conditions of a hobby lathe, it will not react as a 50 weight oil - the temperature is too low. In my area, it is not unusual for the humidity to be above 60% in the warmer months. If humidity is a concern in your area, use compressor oil. I talked with a tech at Amsoil and he made that suggestion to me. It is made to deal with humidity in an air compressor and some of them operate outdoors all year long while lubricating bearings.
Just keep it oiled and have a rag near by. I hope this is helpful.
Paul
My 6" Atlas has no felts in the oiling cups nor on the spindle shaft, just the bearing shields to retain some oil. The manual shows no felts. Since it is basically a total loss system, just keep it oiled, doing so before usage or during or both - your schedule. Any excess will be expelled almost immediately. As for the type of oil, here is my situation. I leased an Esso (Exxon) station back in the early 70s and that is when I purchased the lathe. I would use whatever can was open and clean basically disregarding which viscosity motor oil I used. I live in southern PA now and the lathe is in my garage. I use Amsoil exclusively because I sell the stuff on the side and always have some around. It has basically been lubed with detergent motor oil since ownership. I have no rusting issues and the bearings are original. Detergent oil holds moisture in suspension and it does not release it until the oil gets to engine operating temperatures. As for weight, a straight 20 is a good choice. A multi viscoscity such as a 20W-50 is a 20 weight until the oil gets up to operating temperatures. With the operating conditions of a hobby lathe, it will not react as a 50 weight oil - the temperature is too low. In my area, it is not unusual for the humidity to be above 60% in the warmer months. If humidity is a concern in your area, use compressor oil. I talked with a tech at Amsoil and he made that suggestion to me. It is made to deal with humidity in an air compressor and some of them operate outdoors all year long while lubricating bearings.
Just keep it oiled and have a rag near by. I hope this is helpful.
Paul
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,552
Bernie,
Sorry. I was referring to your statement that most lathes with felts in the spindle bearing oil cups seem to have sleeve bearings. The confusion stems from two sources.
(1) Very few of the machines on this list were bought new by the current owners. So the current owner has no way of knowing what was actually on the machine when it originally left the factory.
(2) The Atlas and Craftsman parts list prior to around 1960 do not list a lot of small or miscellaneous parts like set screws and felts. The later manuals do. So the fact that your parts manual may not show a felt in the spindle oil cups or a set screw in the bull gear or most collars does not mean that they aren't or weren't originally there. Unfortunately, Sears does not seem to have done a corrected parts manual (after about 1960) for the sleeve bearing 6" machines so I can't say whether they had felts in the spindle bearing oil cups or not. As far as bearing oiling goes, I would say that they really aren't needed with the sleeve bearings. However, they can serve a secondary purpose of keeping swarf from getting down into the cup neck.
The spindle oiler felts are one piece and only in the cup body. They do not extend down through the neck and do not touch the bearings, regardless of bearing type. Also, the small oil cups on the QCGB, carriage and underdrive countershaft do not have felts.
Robert D.
Sorry. I was referring to your statement that most lathes with felts in the spindle bearing oil cups seem to have sleeve bearings. The confusion stems from two sources.
(1) Very few of the machines on this list were bought new by the current owners. So the current owner has no way of knowing what was actually on the machine when it originally left the factory.
(2) The Atlas and Craftsman parts list prior to around 1960 do not list a lot of small or miscellaneous parts like set screws and felts. The later manuals do. So the fact that your parts manual may not show a felt in the spindle oil cups or a set screw in the bull gear or most collars does not mean that they aren't or weren't originally there. Unfortunately, Sears does not seem to have done a corrected parts manual (after about 1960) for the sleeve bearing 6" machines so I can't say whether they had felts in the spindle bearing oil cups or not. As far as bearing oiling goes, I would say that they really aren't needed with the sleeve bearings. However, they can serve a secondary purpose of keeping swarf from getting down into the cup neck.
The spindle oiler felts are one piece and only in the cup body. They do not extend down through the neck and do not touch the bearings, regardless of bearing type. Also, the small oil cups on the QCGB, carriage and underdrive countershaft do not have felts.
Robert D.
Thanks to all for a lot of good information about the machines and the oil. I oiled the roller bearings marginally before reassembly of the spindle and then I put about 20 drops of oil in each cup before starting up the machine. I only ran it for a couple of minutes and I plan to add more before starting it up again.
I'm guessing that motor oil doesn't evaporate very quickly, especially in such an enclosed environment, and that at some point there will be enough oil trapped in the system for the bearings to self-lubricate as the bottom of the bearings roll through the pool of oil (assuming no leakage past the shields). Does that seem like a reasonable conclusion? If so, then how do you know when you have enough? I'm guessing you'd know for sure you have enough when oil starts flowing over the ID of the shield.)
By the way, Paul, being located in South Mississippi, I would LOVE for our humidity to be as low as 60% during the warmer months.)
Allen
I'm guessing that motor oil doesn't evaporate very quickly, especially in such an enclosed environment, and that at some point there will be enough oil trapped in the system for the bearings to self-lubricate as the bottom of the bearings roll through the pool of oil (assuming no leakage past the shields). Does that seem like a reasonable conclusion? If so, then how do you know when you have enough? I'm guessing you'd know for sure you have enough when oil starts flowing over the ID of the shield.
)By the way, Paul, being located in South Mississippi, I would LOVE for our humidity to be as low as 60% during the warmer months.
)Allen
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2012
- Messages
- 560
I'm guessing that motor oil doesn't evaporate very quickly, especially in such an enclosed environment, and that at some point there will be enough oil trapped in the system for the bearings to self-lubricate as the bottom of the bearings roll through the pool of oil (assuming no leakage past the shields). Does that seem like a reasonable conclusion? If so, then how do you know when you have enough? I'm guessing you'd know for sure you have enough when oil starts flowing over the ID of the shield.
Allen
Yep, reckon you've just about got it sussed now... you're aware... so doing intermittent home shop work you will be fine...:thumbzup:
Now get those chips flying :biggrin:
Bernard
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2013
- Messages
- 1,834
I understand Robert,
I agree, whether it was there originally or not, that felts are a good thing. I added them to one of my Atlas 618's in the past, not even knowing if it was there before.
I was unclear in my reference to felts "touching cintered bearings", as I was actually referring to, what i should have written as "as on many other machines". My SB Heavy Ten has many felts that are gravity fed, and designed to run in contact with a bearing surface. They are even spring loaded.
I wonder how so many of the felts become completely missing from the Atlas cups?? I have never found one WITH one in place!
Bernie
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,552
Bernie,
I don't know why so many are missing the felts. It's even possible that Atlas didn't install them in the early machines, although I doubt it. But more likely is that PO's pulled them out and never put them back in. Why they pulled them we'll likely never know. Some no doubt were gunked up and then dried to a rigid solid.
That's interesting about the SB felts. It wouldn't hurt the sleeve bearings in the 101.07301 to have the felts touching. But the construction of the oil cups Atlas used makes it somewhat impractical.
Allen,
The shields on the Atlas Timken equipped headstocks are just shields, not seals. Their primary purpose is to exclude trash. They will only hold oil up to the lowest point at the bottom of the shield ID. Any above that will quickly run out.
Robert D.
I don't know why so many are missing the felts. It's even possible that Atlas didn't install them in the early machines, although I doubt it. But more likely is that PO's pulled them out and never put them back in. Why they pulled them we'll likely never know. Some no doubt were gunked up and then dried to a rigid solid.
That's interesting about the SB felts. It wouldn't hurt the sleeve bearings in the 101.07301 to have the felts touching. But the construction of the oil cups Atlas used makes it somewhat impractical.
Allen,
The shields on the Atlas Timken equipped headstocks are just shields, not seals. Their primary purpose is to exclude trash. They will only hold oil up to the lowest point at the bottom of the shield ID. Any above that will quickly run out.
Robert D.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Messages
- 10,552
Atlas (or Clausing) apparently intended that they be retrofitted to all earlier machines as the final (probably) revision of the 618 manual calls for two of M6-83 Felt Plugs. However, what's odd is that although it's logical to assume that when they decided to add the plugs they did it to all that they were going to do it to, the 6" felt has an Atlas style number but the 12" has a Clausing one. So we can't use the part number style as any indicator as to when the felts were added.
s
s