Atlas/Craftsman Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates (if applicable) For Database Entries

[louosten]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Robert;

Here are a couple other things I noticed on this model (H36) 10" F lathe:

1. The on/off switch has an oval shape (not rectangular)
2. The set screws on the countershaft "hanger" have hex heads, not single blade screw heads
3. The half-nut lever is not fastened on by a screw; it's pinged on by a ball peen hammer

There may be other small nuances I haven't discovered yet. So far, your hunch places it at about 1939 vintage; according to your last post, approximately 100,000 10" model F lathes were produced. Is this right?

Lou O.

Lou,

OK on "H" but the standard bed length was 42" according to several catalogs. On the "S", what little information we have in the database would agree with Standard = Babbit . But we have several 101.07403 probably from a later period with an "S" suffix and that model only came with Timken bearings. So that has to be filed under "maybe",

We have no actual production data. We have only a few 9" serial numbers but they are all lower than any 10" s/n. So I am beginning to think that Serial Number 1 was a 9" compound drive and not the first 10". The highest 10" serial number that we have is 88786 which I calculated (from one with bearing dates of 06/22/1951) was made around 08/14/1951. When I get time, I will use post-war data and calculate the approximate highest serial number. It will be under 100000, because that's what the late 12" started at.

Robert D.

 

[wa5cab]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Lou,

(1) According to photos in available catalogs (specifically 1942 and 1943), the headstock casting was changed to use the rectangular switch plate in time for making the photographs for the 1943 catalog. Catalog L43 is dated December 1943. So that doesn't help pin down when yours was made as we already knew from some bearing dates that it was earlier than May 1942.

(2) Judging by photographs in some Sears catalogs, headless slotted set screws may have been used on the Craftsman 9" countershaft bearing adjusters in 1932 through 1935. However, all four catalogs used the same photograph which does not zoom in well. So I'm not sure. All Atlas catalogs from 1932 through 1952 (all 9" and all 10") show the square head screw. I don't think that Hex head screws would have ever been used. The same wrench (supplied with the lathe) that fits the carriage lock and the screw in the tool post would also fit the square head screws in the countershaft. So the hex head ones are probably not original to your machine.

(3) That appears to have changed from peened to screw at the same time as the headstock and switch plate change (between 1942 and 1943).

Not exactly. What I said was that the sum of all Atlas 9" and all 10" was something under 100,000 but over 93668. The new 12" serial numbers (Atlas) started at 100000. Or maybe 100001. The highest change gear 10" serial number we have is 088786 and the highest 4-digit QC serial number that we have is 4882, the sum of which is 93668. 88786 has a 1951 bearing date. And we have one example indicating that Atlas may have shifted the QC serial numbers over to run with the other 10". So the highest serial number must have gotten quite close to 100000.

However, we don't have data to pin down the first 10F serial number very closely. There is a gap in the database between a 10D at 8635 and a 10F at 15883 (yours).

Robert D.

 

[Hankus]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Wish I could provide a purchase date, but I feel fairly comfortable that I'm only the third owner of an Atlas 10F serial number V9552S. Its 36 inch bed vertical countershaft, with Babbitt bearings. Documentation purchased with this lathe included VERY early edition of the Atlas Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables book. Confirmed that this is not an original edition but very early nevertheless and the original owner had signed his name inside. Earliest edition I'm told was 1937 with first revision in 1938-1939. It has several dated entries in the notes pages which were from a Chicago saw sharpening business April 1946. FWIW

 

[wa5cab]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Hankus,

Thanks for the serial number, model number, and bearing and countershaft types. That is the lowest 10F serial number that we have, only about 900 above the highest 10D number that we have.

For more details on the print and content history of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinist Tables (MOLO for short), see my writeup in Downloads, mentioned in a Sticky above. But briefly, all MOLO's printed between 1937 and 1954 say Copyright 1937 on the copyright page. 1955 was the first year to give the print date and the print history (years in which an edition was printed). There were apparently five versions. And three types of bindings. V4 and V5 (Atlas and Craftsman) were printed from circa 1940 on. Although V3 was apparently sold with a lathe in 1943 (probably some Sears store didn't practice FIFO).

Robert D.

 

[Hankus]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Hankus,

Thanks for the serial number, model number, and bearing and countershaft types. That is the lowest 10F serial number that we have, only about 900 above the highest 10D number that we have.

For more details on the print and content history of the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinist Tables (MOLO for short), see my writeup in Downloads, mentioned in a Sticky above. But briefly, all MOLO's printed between 1937 and 1954 say Copyright 1937 on the copyright page. 1955 was the first year to give the print date and the print history (years in which an edition was printed). There were apparently five versions. And three types of bindings. V4 and V5 (Atlas and Craftsman) were printed from circa 1940 on. Although V3 was apparently sold with a lathe in 1943 (probably some Sears store didn't practice FIFO).

Robert D.

I know you and I have discussed my MOLO in the past and knew it was a very early print. In fact on the back page there is a small display of current lathes and none display a power crossfeed.

 

[wa5cab]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Don't know how I missed this post. The PDF of MOLO V1 that I have doesn't have any photos in the back. Could you send me a copy of it?

Robert D.

 

[Hankus]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Don't know how I missed this post. The PDF of MOLO V1 that I have doesn't have any photos in the back. Could you send me a copy of it?

Robert D.

I would be glad to, if I could only figure out how to rotate the scanned image. Look at these in the meantime.

 

[Hankus]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

I would be glad to, if I could only figure out how to rotate the scanned image. Look at these in the meantime.

How's this?

 

[wa5cab]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

I had already done it (rotated the pages) but those look fine. The machines shown (specifically the 10A and 10C) match those shown in what several of us think is a 1935 Atlas catalog. In the (we think) 1937 catalog, the 10A, B & C are replaced by the 10E. As the First Edition appeared in 1937, the 10E photo may not have been available yet.

I have a total of three different copies (two hard copies and one PDF) of the V1. They all have minor differences and none have the photos in the back. I suspect that V1 went through more than one printing. V2/3 (at least the one original I have of it) doesn't have the photos. If they had added the photos at the second or third printing of V1, I would think that they would have carried over to V2. So your copy may well be not only V1 but a First Edition.

Robert D.

 

[Hankus]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

I had already done it (rotated the pages) but those look fine. The machines shown (specifically the 10A and 10C) match those shown in what several of us think is a 1935 Atlas catalog. In the (we think) 1937 catalog, the 10A, B & C are replaced by the 10E. As the First Edition appeared in 1937, the 10E photo may not have been available yet.

I have a total of three different copies (two hard copies and one PDF) of the V1. They all have minor differences and none have the photos in the back. I suspect that V1 went through more than one printing. V2/3 (at least the one original I have of it) doesn't have the photos. If they had added the photos at the second or third printing of V1, I would think that they would have carried over to V2. So your copy may well be not only V1 but a First Edition.

Robert D.

I won't give it to you, but I would be willing to send you my edition for your review, if you'll be sure to return it. Let me know.