Atlas/Craftsman Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates (if applicable) For Database Entries

[wa5cab]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

cdhknives,

I haven't been getting enough sleep lately, which is my excuse for totally missing the fact that you reported that your machine is a QC54. The Atlas QCGB didn't come out until late 1947 (first catalog it shows up in is L47). So your machine has to be later. How much later we don't have enough data to say. We only have serial numbers for eleven QC models total. Of the eleven, only one was reported with believable age documentation (original invoice or shipping document - record isn't clear on which). It is S/N 000647 shipped January, 1948. In the eleven reports, the highest reported serial number is 004882. The QC models were sold from late 1947 through late 1957. Considering that the highest reported serial number change gear 10F is 088631, from a start date of about 1935, I find it hard to believe that less than 5000 QC models were built.

Dates on catalogs found with these old machines are not useful in dating them. A good example of why not is me. For neary 30 years, if someone had acquired my 3996 and related Atlas stuff from my widow, they would have found a 1980 lathe, a 1978 catalog and a 1978 MOLO. However, after about 2010, they would have begun to find conflicting indicators. I got interested in the thing again from a collector standpoint and began to track down and buy all of the accessories that I hadn't bought in 1981. And older and newer catalogs. Today, they would find catalogs from 1931 through 1981 and MOLO's from 1937 through 1988. And accessories that hadn't been sold since the 1950's.

Anyway, your machine was built 1948 or later unless the PO bought and retrofitted the QCGB after 1947 and changed the nameplate. And serial number 003825 on a change gear machine is almost certain to have been on a 10D. That's another area where the database has so few entries as to be statistically inconclusive and possibly incorrect as well. That's one of the reasons that I started this sticky thread - in hopes of collecting enough data to be able to weed out the bogus entries. Sadly, there has been very little response.

I have a range of catalogs with my lathe but the oldest is 1941 so I've concluded it's age is thereabout. No idea on bearing date, no call to disassemble the headstock to date (thankfully!). Roller bearings, 10F w/horizontal countershaft.

QC-54
003825

 

[cdhknives]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

cdhknives,


Anyway, your machine was built 1948 or later unless the PO bought and retrofitted the QCGB after 1947 and changed the nameplate. And serial number 003825 on a change gear machine is almost certain to have been on a 10D. That's another area where the database has so few entries as to be statistically inconclusive and possibly incorrect as well. That's one of the reasons that I started this sticky thread - in hopes of collecting enough data to be able to weed out the bogus entries. Sadly, there has been very little response.

I also have the power cross slide of a 10F, but no way of determing (other than probably not with the history I know of) if it was retrofitted. What else is a dead giveaway between a 10D and 10F?

The lathe came into my family in the 1960's when my grandfather bought it and my uncle (then a HS student) helped him rebuild it. The lead screw was badly worn near the headstock, so it was removed and remachined to reverse it end to end...so my leadscrew works in opposite directions and I assume a custom half nut was made. It works fine otherwise, so long as I work close to the headstock. Other than that, I understand nothing but much cleanup was done to it, but my uncle is still around and in good shape so I'll ask...

The history of these is a big part of the fun and value!

 

[wa5cab]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

The QC54 is a 10F with QCGB. There were four 10" groups, more or less. 10, 10A, 10B & 10C are the first group. 10D and 10E are the second. 10F is the third. And the QC was the fourth. The 10D differs from the 10F in having nearly square (and symmetrical left to right) feet. Whereas the 10F feet are longer left to right and "lean" toward the center. The 10D has a 5/8" dia. lead screw and a vertical countershaft (early 10F's could be bought with the vertical countershaft, too). The 10D and earlier had a one-piece carriage. But it had the later compound slide, cranks and handwheels. It also had the later change gear guard (cover). It had two individual gear guards on top of the headstock and did not have a belt guard. It was available with optional Timken spindle bearings but the majority had babbit. Early 10F were available with babbit bearings (through about 1945) but most have Timken. 10D up through S/N 3969 had two studs for the compound swivel. S/n 3970 and later had the same inverted cone pintle used through end of production in 1981. The only other thing I can think of is that the 10D change gear set included a 96T gear. But that distinction went away with the Pic-O-Matic and the QCGB.

There are, incidentally, two versions of the QCGB. The early one (No. 1500 for 3/4" and 1570 for 5/8" lead screw) had a FWD/REV tumbler similar to the one on all 12" and 6". With a spring-loaded pin holding it in any of the three positions. The later one from around 1952 and later (6800 for either 3/4" or 5/8") had a clamp bolt that had to be loosened in order to change directions.

The database is sadly lacking in 4-digit serial numbers for 10D and 10F (exactly one of each, and as reported the 10D number is higher than the 10F) so we do not any idea what the last 10D serial number was. The current record jumps from those two 4-digit numbers (6301 & 8635) to 17609 (which is either an H48 or an H54 - the serial number was entered twice, with conflicting model numbers - once apparently by Tim Symes in Alberta, Canada and the other time with no name or location given).

Robert D.

 

[LeakyCanoe]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

interesting thread Robert. Sorry I lack any provenance of note nor have I had to tear-down the machine to access the bearings.

Accordingly, I have only the photo of the ID tag with model ( TH48 ) and the nice round serial # ( 46,000 ) for you. I hope there was a tip of the hat at the machine as it was sent on down the line back in the day...

 

[Mike R]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

how do you get the bearing covers off to look for the dates ?

 

[Mike R]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Here are the serial numbers for the three lathes I have. TH-48 041302 it has a QCGB. TH-48 058280 TV-42 030376

 

[Wierd Harold]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

10-F QC54 # 088015

Bearing dates: 1-21-51 & 4-9-51

Just to confuse things, in the box of parts was an extra set of bearings # 8-20-43 & 10-11-43

HWF

ps fyi I took the headstock apart because of the gear which drives the back gear had most of it's teeth missing along with the small back gear. They both crumbled in my hand like they were made of plaster when I pulled them off.

 

[wa5cab]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

My replies (and anyone elses 10/04/14 - 10/06/14) were lost in a system crash. So I'm going to repeat them as best I recall, and all in one reply.

Mike R,

The only practical way to remove the dust covers without damage is to pull the spindle. But even if you could get them off, you wouldn't be able to see the dates as they are on the wide side of the cups.

Harold,

The 1943 dated bearings did not come from your QC54 because the two QC models didn't first appear until late 1947.

 

[louosten]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Hello All,
I recently acquired an old Atlas 10" Model F lathe (verified from available pictures/literature). It has Babbit headstock bearings and the bed length is 36". It has a big 3/4" lead screw. There is a serial number stamped in the front rail at the extreme right, H 15883 S. No other designations exist. I estimate the age of the machine from the early 1940s. Does anyone have a better guess?
Lou O.

 

[wa5cab]

Re: Atlas 10" Serial Numbers and Bearing Dates

Lou,

You didn't mention whether or not your lathe still has its countershaft but the little available information suggests that the "H" prefix found in some early serial numbers means Horizontal. So the model number would be H36. No one has come up with any logical explanation for the "S" suffix.

We have no confirmed (by Timken bearing date or early paperwork) serial numbers earlier than three from 1942. It is thought that with the exception of the QC42 and QC54, all Atlas 10" models have serial numbers out of the same sequence. Meaning that the first 10" made was serial number 1 (later to be called 000001) and that the numbers ran up from there through 1957. Making the crude assumption that the production rate was relatively constant and estimating the mfg date off of the 1942 serial number, your machine would have been made in late 1938. If you assume higher production rates from 1940 on, then 1939. This at least doesn't disagree with other source data, mainly catalogs from the period.

Robert D.