Atlas 101.21400 used w/accessories, $1,500, plan to buy... thoughts?

[Doug Gray]

It's common for people new to the hobby to initial think of having just one lathe in the shop! I have a 14x40 and often wish I still had my Taig. I hope you get this one, the learning experience will be tons of fun!

 

[skcncx]

It's common for people new to the hobby to initial think of having just one lathe in the shop! I have a 14x40 and often wish I still had my Taig. I hope you get this one, the learning experience will be tons of fun!

Yea, I want a Taig as well, but felt I almost immediately would grow out of it (capacity wise).... You can easily store those away when not in use. Seems like with the Atlas 618 I have a little more room to grow. Learning the basics on either will be huge. My responsible adult self says to start slow and not worry if it's on a 40 year old machine... but I really want to go to the deep end with the precision matthews 10 x 30. Availability and inflation is really doing a number on the used market and or how long you have to wait for new stuff.

My lathe experience is like learning about electricity.... all the theory and text book knowledge won't tell you what it's really like... at least not until you get shocked... then you feel it. So, until I use any lathe in action, anger, frustration, troubleshooting issues through to success... it'll remain "theory/speculation" in my head.

 

[Aaron_W]

It's common for people new to the hobby to initial think of having just one lathe in the shop! I have a 14x40 and often wish I still had my Taig. I hope you get this one, the learning experience will be tons of fun!

Yes, we often see the phrase you can turn small parts on a big lathe, but you can't turn big parts on a small lathe. What is often left out is, it is even better to have a small lathe for small parts and a big lathe for big parts.

I think my plan is, pick this Atlas 618 up, even if it's a bit high on the price, get going, see how much I use it, find out what I really need... and if I upgrade...I'm just going to jump to a Precision Matthews 10" x 22" or 30" or the largest LMS 8.5 x 20 one... those are just around the $4K mark. Even if I sell this package in a year for $1K, lose $500, if I've used it enough to know and want/need a bigger lathe, that's cheap in the long run to have the learning under my belt.. vs spend $4k day one with hardly any tooling and find out I didn't really need it.

We'll see how my negotiating skills work, hoping to at least get him down to $1,250 at the worst.

The learning curve is already quite steep, so I see nothing wrong with your attitude here. You seem to be fine with writing off $500 as an "educational expense" and that is what it is. Sure maybe you wait and next month, 3 months from now or next year you find another just like it but only asking $750. Those months of waiting also have a cost, time you could have been making mistakes and learning.
If you compare to your other get right to it options like a Micromark or LMS 7x16" lathe you are looking at spending even more than $1500, and personally I think the 6x18 is at least equal to those lathes if not better. The LMS 8.5x20 is no doubt a superior machine, but double the price and still doesn't address some of the short comings of 6x18. You could just as easily buy that 8.5x20" and in 3 years still find yourself wanting more lathe.

I'm not saying $1500 is a great deal, but it isn't completely out there. There is probably close to $1500 there, just most sellers have to break it up and sell individually to get that. This just seems to be a case of a buyer and seller meshing, the seller is patient enough to wait for a buyer willing to pay a convenience fee for the package deal, and you are getting something that might take you a considerable time to put together on your own.

As long as you won't hate yourself if a nice 618 package turns up next week for $600.

 

[skcncx]

Yes, we often see the phrase you can turn small parts on a big lathe, but you can't turn big parts on a small lathe. What is often left out is, it is even better to have a small lathe for small parts and a big lathe for big parts.



The learning curve is already quite steep, so I see nothing wrong with your attitude here. You seem to be fine with writing off $500 as an "educational expense" and that is what it is. Sure maybe you wait and next month, 3 months from now or next year you find another just like it but only asking $750. Those months of waiting also have a cost, time you could have been making mistakes and learning.
If you compare to your other get right to it options like a Micromark or LMS 7x16" lathe you are looking at spending even more than $1500, and personally I think the 6x18 is at least equal to those lathes if not better. The LMS 8.5x20 is no doubt a superior machine, but double the price and still doesn't address some of the short comings of 6x18. You could just as easily buy that 8.5x20" and in 3 years still find yourself wanting more lathe.

I'm not saying $1500 is a great deal, but it isn't completely out there. There is probably close to $1500 there, just most sellers have to break it up and sell individually to get that. This just seems to be a case of a buyer and seller meshing, the seller is patient enough to wait for a buyer willing to pay a convenience fee for the package deal, and you are getting something that might take you a considerable time to put together on your own.

As long as you won't hate yourself if a nice 618 package turns up next week for $600.

Thanks for the input! I've gotten that impression that the atlas 618 is on par with the other 7x16 machines and what ii can do... if I upgrade, I'll likely want to go into a different class of lathe (bigger, more features, better quality), not just trade. That's the ONLY reason the Taig as a first lathe looked like an attractive path, I wouldn't sell it when I upgrade, just keep it for the small stuff and go big on 2nd lathe. 2 lathes... I like that idea, but I would want them on different spectrums, not two of the same and the Taig route would prove that. 618 package I'm looking at, is about the same price as Taig end the end, so I'm hedging my bets this is all I'll ever need and if I sell, it won't hurt too bad.

Once I buy... I don't keep looking at the used market ... that just puts you in a bad mood... "comparison" mentality robs too much joy in life.

 

[Aaron_W]

Thanks for the input! I've gotten that impression that the atlas 618 is on par with the other 7x16 machines and what ii can do... if I upgrade, I'll likely want to go into a different class of lathe (bigger, more features, better quality), not just trade. That's the ONLY reason the Taig as a first lathe looked like an attractive path, I wouldn't sell it when I upgrade, just keep it for the small stuff and go big on 2nd lathe. 2 lathes... I like that idea, but I would want them on different spectrums, not two of the same and the Taig route would prove that. 618 package I'm looking at, is about the same price as Taig end the end, so I'm hedging my bets this is all I'll ever need and if I sell, it won't hurt too bad.

Once I buy... I don't keep looking at the used market ... that just puts you in a bad mood... "comparison" mentality robs too much joy in life.

Something that might help you.

Quick change gear boxes don't appear on the current generation of new lathes until you get into the 12" size, so none of the new lathes you are considering, even the 10x22s don't really offer much the 618 doesn't except size. Some do offer a limited gear box to adjust the power feed speed, but all still require change gears for threading. Some do offer variable speed which is nice, but not all do and that is something you can add to the Craftsman by changing the motor.
To get a small lathe with a QCGB you have to go vintage, Atlas / Craftsman 10-12", a South Bend 9-10", Logan 10", Myford 7 etc which means a hunt of the used market, and evaluating 50+ year old machines. QCGB was an expensive option for these older lathes so you find many more change gear lathes than those with a QCGB.

Something else that has become popular in recent years, particularly for small lathes is an electronic lead screw. Basically a quick change gear box done with electronics rather than mechanically with gears. You can always go down that DIY rabbit hole in the future.

Once you have a lathe, even one that comes up a bit short, it becomes much easier to patiently search for "the one".

 

[skcncx]

Something that might help you.

Quick change gear boxes don't appear on the current generation of new lathes until you get into the 12" size, so none of the new lathes you are considering, even the 10x22s don't really offer much the 618 doesn't except size. Some do offer a limited gear box to adjust the power feed speed, but all still require change gears for threading. Some do offer variable speed which is nice, but not all do and that is something you can add to the Craftsman by changing the motor.
To get a small lathe with a QCGB you have to go vintage, Atlas / Craftsman 10-12", a South Bend 9-10", Logan 10", Myford 7 etc which means a hunt of the used market, and evaluating 50+ year old machines. QCGB was an expensive option for these older lathes so you find many more change gear lathes than those with a QCGB.

Something else that has become popular in recent years, particularly for small lathes is an electronic lead screw. Basically a quick change gear box done with electronics rather than mechanically with gears. You can always go down that DIY rabbit hole in the future.

Once you have a lathe, even one that comes up a bit short, it becomes much easier to patiently search for "the one".

Ohh... I saw the two knobs on the PM 10x22 for carriage feed speed and figured that was for cutting threads as well... just opened the manual and you still change gears... thanks. I actually bought a 500 watt consew variable speed brushess dc motor (for my band saw)... so if I need it, I could use it on my Atlas 618.... future upgrade if it really helps. Changing motor speed on atlas 618 with pulley's seems pretty easy as well though.

The electric lead screw seems "cool"... but if the motor bogs down on turning, you have to sync up the lead screw feed rate relative to how much the motor bogs down... or just assume perfect conditions.... so it seems like that electronic lead screw option has some caveats if I'm thinking of it correctly. The gear box does that automatically I assume because the gears are driven off the spindle speed so it's all relative speed.

 

[Larry$]

Good thread. From what I've been able to gather, buying the 618 with all the stuff looks like a fair deal. The way things look in the photos tell me a good deal of care was used with this machine, that is worth a lot. Size: as long as it is big enough to do what you want, for now, it should be a great learning machine. "Timken" bearings! There are many excellent bearing manufacturers, don't get hung up on one brand name. When you need good bearings go to an industrial supplier like Motion Industries, not eBay! A large lathe can do small work perfectly fine, using collet chucks for small work on a big lathe works just fine. The only limitation I can see is with spindle speeds being more limited on the high end, not a big deal.

As you've probably gathered in reading this site, the rabbit hole is very deep! It won't be long and you will want a milling machine. A mill & a lathe make up a "set." Have fun.

 

[mickri]

When you go to negotiate have cash in hand. Lay out what ever you want to spend on the table for the seller to see the cash. If the seller won't take your money then pick up your money and walk away. The lathe has been for sale for awhile. There will be more lathes for sale.

Also widen your search area. When I was looking for my lathe my search area was a day's drive to make the round trip. The lathe I ultimately bought was only a couple of miles from my house. My mill drill was 70 miles from my house.

 

[Aaron_W]

Ohh... I saw the two knobs on the PM 10x22 for carriage feed speed and figured that was for cutting threads as well... just opened the manual and you still change gears... thanks. I actually bought a 500 watt consew variable speed brushess dc motor (for my band saw)... so if I need it, I could use it on my Atlas 618.... future upgrade if it really helps. Changing motor speed on atlas 618 with pulley's seems pretty easy as well though.

The electric lead screw seems "cool"... but if the motor bogs down on turning, you have to sync up the lead screw feed rate relative to how much the motor bogs down... or just assume perfect conditions.... so it seems like that electronic lead screw option has some caveats if I'm thinking of it correctly. The gear box does that automatically I assume because the gears are driven off the spindle speed so it's all relative speed.

Yes, I thought this as well because they have a gear box. It wasn't until I got a 9x20 with a "QCGB" that I realized how limited they were. Looking through manuals I found this was the case on all of them with the exception of a few high end pro grade machines ($9000+ for a 10" lathe).

I'm not well versed on the ELS, or very comfortable with electronics. As I understand it, the ELS does register off the spindle speed so should make minor adjustments similar to what mechanical gears would do. There are several threads on the site and tons of info online if you ever decide to pursue that option.

Variable speed is often done with a DC motor as with your bandsaw or with a 3 phase motor and a variable frequency drive.

The rabbit hole is deep, and many here are more than willing to hand you a shovel.

 

[skcncx]

Here to report success! I bought it, the easy part but the typical on the way home thinking... man, I paid to much ($1400) and do I really need a lathe, I'm not even sure what I will use this thing for.

See pics of my first ever turning and stuff that came with it. There's probably lots of wrong things you see and not the right cutter etc... It's 1" aluminum rod, whittled it down to about 1/2", no real purpose other than to see some metal cutting in action. I went with what was in the cutter, a carbide insert.

Things I learned....

• Those little hand wheels are hard to keep a consistent feed rate (current gear setup was way too fast for power feed, need to adjust)
• That's a lot of cranking on those little hand wheels (I just learned why nice, large, smooth hand wheels are critical)
• Deflection happens, I was too eager to start turning... so my first setup could be changed
  • First project is to make nine 8" long pins, 1" diameter for 2" of length and then the rest at 5/8" diameter... (kind of what you see in the pic)
• I've mastered chamfering (mastered in a very loose sense) but I got a lot of satisfaction over that little turning operation.
• I tried slow up to fast RPMS... aluminum seems to cut better at higher speeds
• Some type of DRO or better measurement readouts will be mods I make to help out
• Environmental aspects... I smelled like some sort of metal/oil combination, hot aluminum chips will singe your skin, don't try to clean up your finish with steel wool.... if it grabs is while turning... your fingers might go with it.

What's next...

1. Turn some more stuff
2. Gain some mastery over this little lathe and turning in general
3. Make some mods
4. Buy a bigger lathe.... this is on my list PM-1228VF-LB PRECISION 12″X28″ 1.5" spindle bore, QCGB (not all thread pitches but better), variable speed brushless dc motor, down to 50 RPM for thread cutting, can get with DROs... ohh how cool. Seems like once you get to about $4,000 to $5000 you can really make the leap to the next level with major benefits... but I still have to master the simple techniques to even know to take advantage of a larger/better lathe.