At what point are you considered a "Machinist"?

[verbotenwhisky]

I needed a lathe part made. I went to 5 shops. One is more of a welding/fabrication shop but had some lathes and mills he bought with the shop and did not use much. He said he had finally hired a “real machinist” for the first time and show it to Perry. I had the whole lathe saddle in the back of the Yukon and Perry could recognize none of this, even when I showed him the lathe parts diagram. He asked me if I could bring the parts in sometime for him to see. It was all right there in front of him. Owner finally said they could not make the part. Not a machinist.

On 2 separate occasions I have presented drawings to a number of machine shops with finishes at 16 and tolerances into the +/-0.0005 range and had them tell me they could not manage those. I was not impressed. They told me those were made up numbers to which I scanned pages from the "Machinery's Handbook" and sent it to them and they were not impressed.

 

[mmcmdl]

On 2 separate occasions I have presented drawings to a number of machine shops with finishes at 16 and tolerances into the +/-0.0005 range and had them tell me they could not manage those. I was not impressed. They told me those were made up numbers to which I scanned pages from the "Machinery's Handbook" and sent it to them and they were not impressed.

16 rms and lower are considered ground surfaces , maybe they didn't have grinders ? We had parts down to 4 rms and .0002 tolerance . Took time but we made them right as they were NASA parts .

 

[verbotenwhisky]

16 rms and lower are considered ground surfaces , maybe they didn't have grinders ? We had parts down to 4 rms and .0002 tolerance . Took time but we made them right as they were NASA parts .

I finally found a Machine shop out of Ohio that could do the work, they said it was course and could not understand the issue.

I also had to send them this as well because, it seems, they were confused by the drawing symbols.



And this to prove I had not pulled the finish out of my back side (note where it says "recommended surface finishes" below illustrations).



I also sent them the LC and RC tolerance charts.

Very frustrating, very....

 

[dabear3428]

I finally found a Machine shop out of Ohio that could do the work, they said it was course and could not understand the issue.
View attachment 494687
I also had to send them this as well because, it seems, they were confused by the drawing symbols.

View attachment 494688

And this to prove I had not pulled the finish out of my back side (note where it says "recommended surface finishes" below illustrations).

View attachment 494689

I also sent them the LC and RC tolerance charts.

Very frustrating, very....

guess you are just too demanding lol

 

[mmcmdl]

Here's a gage . It's for references only . You really need one of those scratching things . ( profilomter )

 

[projectnut]

On 2 separate occasions I have presented drawings to a number of machine shops with finishes at 16 and tolerances into the +/-0.0005 range and had them tell me they could not manage those. I was not impressed. They told me those were made up numbers to which I scanned pages from the "Machinery's Handbook" and sent it to them and they were not impressed.

I’m guessing it was more a case of not wanting to make the parts rather than the inability to do so.

Tolerances that tight and finishes of that nature usually take a fair amount of time if done on manual machines. We avoided holding tolerances tighter than absolutely necessary mainly due to cost and time to produce. I

I can still hear my bosses words about tolerances. “For every place you move the tolerance decimal to the left you move the cost the same amount to the right”.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

I’m guessing it was more a case of not wanting to make the parts rather than the inability to do so.

Tolerances that tight and finishes of that nature usually take a fair amount of time if done on manual machines. We avoided holding tolerances tighter than absolutely necessary mainly due to cost and time to produce. I

I can still hear my bosses words about tolerances. “For every place you move the tolerance decimal to the left you move the cost the same amount to the right”.

Absolutely understand, the tighter the tolerance the higher the cost. BUT, if I the customer ask for it you should not shy away from giving me a price and even providing input (I asked for this) on where you see an issue that might make it less expensive. When they start pounding sand up My arse about tolerance and finish which is easily disproved..... well lets just say my sense of humor evaporates rapidly.

 

[mmcmdl]

I don't think they wanted the job . If they did , at least they should've given you high a quote which you could walk away from . Sounds like they wanted the job but not to the specs .

 

[dabear3428]

Absolutely understand, the tighter the tolerance the higher the cost. BUT, if I the customer ask for it you should not shy away from giving me a price and even providing input (I asked for this) on where you see an issue that might make it less expensive. When they start pounding sand up My arse about tolerance and finish which is easily disproved..... well lets just say my sense of humor evaporates rapidly.

I don't know if they wanted to do the job or not but I KNOW you did not want them to the job.

 

[Mini Cooper S]

I had a friend in high school who would call himself an electrician because he helped his dad wire in a new light fixture in their basement. He would also call himself a plumber because he helped run a water line to a laundry tub. He didn't do this tongue in cheek, he was serious. At the risk of sounding like a snob, it always bothered me that he would take credit for being something that actually takes people years of hard work to really become.

My father-in-law spent 4 years working as an apprentice machinist at Kearney and Trecker, during WWII building the machinery needed to support the war effort. After he worked at Kearney, he spent 35 years working as a maintenance machinist at the Schlitz Brewing Company in Milwaukee. He worked until the brewery workers went on strike and Schlitz decided the cost of brewing beer in Milwaukee was too high and permanently closed their original brewery. The last thing that he did in his working career was to mothball the brewery. The man was a machinist in the truest sense of the word, he could confidently make any part within the scope of the equipment available. On the other end of the scale, I worked at a place that had two Mazak turning centers. The two guys that ran those machines, did very fine work, but couldn't even program their machines, much less move over to the toolroom and make a part from scratch. (They could make modifications to the programs such as changing speeds and feeds). They could also be classified as "machinist" but only because they ran a machine tool.

All that said, I feel that if you are confident that you can make any part within the scope of a well equipped shop (Mill, lathe, surface grinder, drill press) you are a true machinist. If not, you can feel proud to call yourself a hobby machinist or aspiring machinist, amateur machinist, etc.

That is all,
Richard