80% Lower Legal Question

So what is the status of 80% lowers? I don't have a dog in this fight anymore, as I am in Taiwan and firearms are illegal, full stop. Try to manufacture them unlawfully and it's a minimum of 10 years in prison up to and including death penalty. So only weapon I'll be making would be knife of not more than 28cm in length (this is the law in Taiwan, after which the knife becomes regulated and must be registered).

But I'm getting the impression that 80% receivers will be illegal. Is that the case? If you took a bar of 4140, turned it into a Remington 700 receiver, what would be the legal way to do this? Would you have to go through a FFL transfer and all that?
 
So what is the status of 80% lowers? I don't have a dog in this fight anymore, as I am in Taiwan and firearms are illegal, full stop. Try to manufacture them unlawfully and it's a minimum of 10 years in prison up to and including death penalty. So only weapon I'll be making would be knife of not more than 28cm in length (this is the law in Taiwan, after which the knife becomes regulated and must be registered).

But I'm getting the impression that 80% receivers will be illegal. Is that the case? If you took a bar of 4140, turned it into a Remington 700 receiver, what would be the legal way to do this? Would you have to go through a FFL transfer and all that?
i think Clinton addressed that years back. don't ask don't tell
 
The "80%" designation is the result of several Federal court cases where people spent huge sums, went to jail, got out, were arrested again, etc. Throw in some mass confiscations and you got pretty much what we have today.
The question was simply one of "what constitutes a receiver?" That's what the courts defined. What we have today, specifically for only a few guns, i might add, have been defined as "80%". One more hole. One more cut. Whatever, and then it would exceed 80% (perhaps then 85%) and be illegal to call a chunk of material but then be simply "an incomplete receiver" subject to FFL transfer regs. 80% is up to the edge but not over.

But remember, that's your *starting* point. A chunk of bar stock is essentially a "zero percent". What's not gone (as now) is the ability to make your own gun. So if you start with bar stock (0%) and make your Rem 700 knockoff, hey, no problem, if that's your thing.

So it's possible (because anything's possible right now) that the 80% will be gone but as of now, making your own will not.
 
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. don't ask don't tell

Sure... any "swatting", or anytime a law enforcement sees it, or some busybody sees it at the range, or some busybody decides to tell law enforcement over some misunderstood statement that gives them a prelude to look into you, then you get a search warrant, and end up in jail. And America is full of busybodies too... Seems the conventional wisdom now is just stay away from guns...

America don't have the highest incarceration rate in the world for no reason, and having any felony on your record is debilitating, almost making you a second class citizen.
 
Sure... any "swatting", or anytime a law enforcement sees it, or some busybody sees it at the range, or some busybody decides to tell law enforcement over some misunderstood statement that gives them a prelude to look into you, then you get a search warrant, and end up in jail. And America is full of busybodies too... Seems the conventional wisdom now is just stay away from guns...

America don't have the highest incarceration rate in the world for no reason, and having any felony on your record is debilitating, almost making you a second class citizen.
All these laws being passed will not stop the criminal or felon’s that want a firearm Illegally. Any lower or receiver will have to be serialized by the manufacturer or the builder That’s all.
Unfortunately it seems the jail system is more about money not rehabilitation.
Famous saying you do the crime be ready to do the time.
Dont commit felonies how about that!
 
I'm not sure the goal is stopping any carnage, but surely the goal is to get more bodies into prison. There are so many laws, if any law enforcement has an axe to grind against you they can jail you for as long as they like.

It's easier said than done to not commit felonies when just about anything is a felony. Not committing actual felonies are easy but these days, there are felony jaywalking.
 
The thing with 80% receivers is....there's a long history to get to where we are, lots of incremental steps. First understand at least at a Federal level, it is now, and has always been perfectly legal to build a home made firearm if the firearm is otherwise legal to own. What that means is you can't legally build a machine gun but semi-auto and bolt actions, single shots, shotguns are all good to go.
The difference starts here: The Feds regulate who can "Manufacture" firearms with the intention to be sold. When Winchester or Remington or any other 'store bought' manufacturer builds a gun, it has to have a serial number and records have to be kept, that's the law. When you DIY at home you don't have to give it a number or keep records, you can build 1 or 100 it makes no difference.

At some point in the past, a legal manufacturer pulled some parts just short of being 'finished' and sold them without a serial number so you could 'finish it yourself' at home. Some of those parts literally only needed a single hole drilled to be completely finished. The Feds found out and said whoa hold your horses you cant do that. At that point they had to make a determination on exactly how much work could be done by a manufacture before it is sold as unfinished. You guessed it, the benchmark is 80% complete or less can be sold without a serial number and without record keeping by the manufacturer. What people could do for years is buy a 'completion kit' for say a AR15. The 'completion kit' was every single part of the firearm, except for the finished receiver. You could save a lil money if you bought a finished receiver complete with factory roll marks and serial number from a legal manufacturer such as Olympic Arms (back in the day) or Spikes Tactical, and then go to a seperate business like Model One Sales and buy the 'completion kit'. The savings came from the tax. A completed rifle sale also charged a specific tax on firearms sold. Buying just a receiver didn't cost the tax, or for that matter the labor of assembly. When 80% receivers became common dealers who sold 'completion kits' also sold 80% receivers to go with them, saving the taxes and letting you do it at home.

Fast forward to the new ruling soon to go into effect....I have read the rule and talked to lots of folks in the business (take this for what you paid for it). 80% receivers can and will still be sold.
80% receivers sold by a company that also sells completion kits will be required to have a serial number. 80% receivers sold by companies that DO NOT sell completion kits or other parts for the receiver can sell the same 80% receiver with no serial number.

What I predict will happen, and what I would do myself if I were in business, is if I had a business that sold completion kits or parts for them I would absolutely stop selling 80% receivers. I would also open a 2nd business that only sold 80% receivers, or have a family member open it. Then that company can sell 80% receivers with no serial numbers.

Here's why I like 80% receivers:
g3.jpg
g4.jpg

Those were 80% receivers, I built them and marked them with my fiber laser. If you have been in the Glock world for a while you may remeber that there has been talk of Glock making a carbine for decades. People assumed that the popularity of the AR platform, and the fact that everybody puts their name on an AR based rifle/carbine would be a given that Glock would build one. It's been teased, and Glock swears they wont do it. I thought a Glock carbine would be the Ne Plus Ultra of cool, so I built 2, on in 9mm that takes Glock mags and one standard in 5.56. And as you can see I did my own serial numbers which wouldn't be possible if I had to get one pre-serialized.

I like having cool guns. Does anyone else have a Mauser marked AR15? (haven't finished that one yet but one day...) I also just think it would be cool to have for instance a .308 based AR marked as Enfield, or Weatherby. There are others I want too.

Some people want 80% guns because they can build it in states they cant legally buy it in the completed form. Several places selling them are prohibited but so far possession is not.

80% receivers are not going to go away. If they make it where you cant sell it without a number, people with start making a receiver that is 75% complete, and so on and so forth until the Feds either give up, stop trying, or are forced to regulate and serialize steel tubing sold at Home Depot. Seriously, most of us here could go to Home Depot and buy every single part/piece of material we would need to build a fully automatic 9mm carbine.

STEN.jpg
 
The thing with 80% receivers is....there's a long history to get to where we are, lots of incremental steps. First understand at least at a Federal level, it is now, and has always been perfectly legal to build a home made firearm if the firearm is otherwise legal to own. What that means is you can't legally build a machine gun but semi-auto and bolt actions, single shots, shotguns are all good to go.
The difference starts here: The Feds regulate who can "Manufacture" firearms with the intention to be sold. When Winchester or Remington or any other 'store bought' manufacturer builds a gun, it has to have a serial number and records have to be kept, that's the law. When you DIY at home you don't have to give it a number or keep records, you can build 1 or 100 it makes no difference.

At some point in the past, a legal manufacturer pulled some parts just short of being 'finished' and sold them without a serial number so you could 'finish it yourself' at home. Some of those parts literally only needed a single hole drilled to be completely finished. The Feds found out and said whoa hold your horses you cant do that. At that point they had to make a determination on exactly how much work could be done by a manufacture before it is sold as unfinished. You guessed it, the benchmark is 80% complete or less can be sold without a serial number and without record keeping by the manufacturer. What people could do for years is buy a 'completion kit' for say a AR15. The 'completion kit' was every single part of the firearm, except for the finished receiver. You could save a lil money if you bought a finished receiver complete with factory roll marks and serial number from a legal manufacturer such as Olympic Arms (back in the day) or Spikes Tactical, and then go to a seperate business like Model One Sales and buy the 'completion kit'. The savings came from the tax. A completed rifle sale also charged a specific tax on firearms sold. Buying just a receiver didn't cost the tax, or for that matter the labor of assembly. When 80% receivers became common dealers who sold 'completion kits' also sold 80% receivers to go with them, saving the taxes and letting you do it at home.

Fast forward to the new ruling soon to go into effect....I have read the rule and talked to lots of folks in the business (take this for what you paid for it). 80% receivers can and will still be sold.
80% receivers sold by a company that also sells completion kits will be required to have a serial number. 80% receivers sold by companies that DO NOT sell completion kits or other parts for the receiver can sell the same 80% receiver with no serial number.

What I predict will happen, and what I would do myself if I were in business, is if I had a business that sold completion kits or parts for them I would absolutely stop selling 80% receivers. I would also open a 2nd business that only sold 80% receivers, or have a family member open it. Then that company can sell 80% receivers with no serial numbers.

Here's why I like 80% receivers:
View attachment 412911
View attachment 412912

Those were 80% receivers, I built them and marked them with my fiber laser. If you have been in the Glock world for a while you may remeber that there has been talk of Glock making a carbine for decades. People assumed that the popularity of the AR platform, and the fact that everybody puts their name on an AR based rifle/carbine would be a given that Glock would build one. It's been teased, and Glock swears they wont do it. I thought a Glock carbine would be the Ne Plus Ultra of cool, so I built 2, on in 9mm that takes Glock mags and one standard in 5.56. And as you can see I did my own serial numbers which wouldn't be possible if I had to get one pre-serialized.

I like having cool guns. Does anyone else have a Mauser marked AR15? (haven't finished that one yet but one day...) I also just think it would be cool to have for instance a .308 based AR marked as Enfield, or Weatherby. There are others I want too.

Some people want 80% guns because they can build it in states they cant legally buy it in the completed form. Several places selling them are prohibited but so far possession is not.

80% receivers are not going to go away. If they make it where you cant sell it without a number, people with start making a receiver that is 75% complete, and so on and so forth until the Feds either give up, stop trying, or are forced to regulate and serialize steel tubing sold at Home Depot. Seriously, most of us here could go to Home Depot and buy every single part/piece of material we would need to build a fully automatic 9mm carbine.

View attachment 412917
Arre you familiar with JustRightCarbines.com ? I've had the 9mm Glock version for about 15 years. I bought it at the time as it was cheaper to go plinking with 9mm over .223 How things have changed. Half the time 9mm is about impossible to even find.
 
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