You're Wrong,...

Ultradog MN said:
I think it's okay to "correct" others if you do it kindly.
However, there is one topic that you may never have your own opinion about and that is safety.
If the safety preachers say what you are doing is dangerous then it surely must be dangerous. It doesn't matter if you have done it this way before and are confident you can safely do it again. If they tell you it is dangerous and you voice your dissent it will cause hurt feelings and a big argument.
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I respectfully disagree. Safety is the same as any other opinion, you can take the advice or ignore it.

Working with machinery is inherently dangerous but can be practiced safely if reasonable precautions are taken. Most of us generally agree on how to deal with the common hazards and follow safe practice. However, Everyone has their own level of risk they are comfortable with. When an unusual situation raises special concerns, some may err on the side of being extra cautious. There is nothing wrong with that, even if they implore you not to do something in a way they fee is unsafe. They are only trying to help and save you from possible harm. If you disagree, simply thank them for their concern and go about your business. There is no need to ever get into an argument.

Likewise, No one here should ever feel they shouldn't raise a safety concern or feel intimidated, shamed for doing so. If you see someone doing or planning to do something in a way you feel is unsafe, by all means call it out. If they don't heed your warning, don't take it personally, you've made your case, that's all you can do. It is their prerogative to take your advice or not. There is no need to belabor the point.

That being said, Everyone should carefully consider others opinions. No one knows everything, hubris and complacency are you worst enemies. Especially, when it come to safety, you have a lot more to loose then an argument, if you get it wrong. I know this first hand...
 

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Eddyde said:
I respectfully disagree. Safety is the same as any other opinion, you can take the advice or ignore it.

Working with machinery is inherently dangerous but can be practiced safely if reasonable precautions are taken. Most of us generally agree on how to deal with the common hazards and follow safe practice. However, Everyone has their own level of risk they are comfortable with. When an unusual situation raises special concerns, some may err on the side of being extra cautious. There is nothing wrong with that, even if they implore you not to do something in a way they fee is unsafe. They are only trying to help and save you from possible harm. If you disagree, simply thank them for their concern and go about your business. There is no need to ever get into an argument.

Likewise, No one here should ever feel they shouldn't raise a safety concern or feel intimidated, shamed for doing so. If you see someone doing or planning to do something in a way you feel is unsafe, by all means call it out. If they don't heed your warning, don't take it personally, you've made your case, that's all you can do. It is their prerogative to take your advice or not. There is no need to belabor the point.

That being said, Everyone should carefully consider others opinions. No one knows everything, hubris and complacency are you worst enemies. Especially, when it come to safety, you have a lot more to loose then an argument, if you get it wrong. I know this first hand...
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I gave your post the love reaction for the message...

...definitely not for the pictures! :eek: :foot in mouth::faint:

:grin:
 
Of course this is just my opinion.
There are some safety issues that are black and white as to what is safe or not, many of the issues fall into the grey area of opinion and personal experience. What may be perfectly safe for someone with a lot of experience and proper equipment may be totally unsafe for others to attempt. There is no black and white in anything.

This a[[lies to most things in life.

Like I always tell my coworkers, there at least a half dozen way to do anything, 3 of those ways are good ways.

I have seen heated discussions over how to accomplish a task, the way that is right for me with my selection of equipment and skills might be totally wrong for someone else with a different set of equipment and skills. Just because it is best for me does not make it best for everyone.
 
AllenV said:
This is somewhat related to the topic

I was 3 decades as a researcher at a large laboratory, a place where enthusiastic discussion among individuals with egos and technical expertise is commonplace. Face-to-face conversation was often enthusiastic but somehow we didn’t take technical criticism personally.

However, e-mail conversations were a tricky thing. Much like these forums. I find it very challenging to strike the right tone in a conversation where text is the only medium. Statements come off as somehow harsh and rude where the same words spoken in someone’s office would be fine. This has to do with body language and the instant feedback available when speaking to someone in person.

My best solution for e-mail conversations is to keep it factual, bland, and polite. Above all else, avoid the use of humor. Humor relies so much on the social perspective and backgrounds of those involved that it is very difficult to strike the right tone where the audience is large and largely unknown to the writer.
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Something that should be understood by all who frequent discussion boards, but an individuals level of maturity also comes into play.

Oftentimes in written communications I find less words to be more useful and to carry much less emotion, intended or not.

However, you will run across those who have had a traumatic episode that has left a deep scar on their psyche which leaves them with feelings of inadequacy, when their actions are given anything but a thumbs up..
 
Eddyde said:
I respectfully disagree. Safety is the same as any other opinion, you can take the advice or ignore it.

Working with machinery is inherently dangerous but can be practiced safely if reasonable precautions are taken. Most of us generally agree on how to deal with the common hazards and follow safe practice. However, Everyone has their own level of risk they are comfortable with. When an unusual situation raises special concerns, some may err on the side of being extra cautious. There is nothing wrong with that, even if they implore you not to do something in a way they fee is unsafe. They are only trying to help and save you from possible harm. If you disagree, simply thank them for their concern and go about your business. There is no need to ever get into an argument.

Likewise, No one here should ever feel they shouldn't raise a safety concern or feel intimidated, shamed for doing so. If you see someone doing or planning to do something in a way you feel is unsafe, by all means call it out. If they don't heed your warning, don't take it personally, you've made your case, that's all you can do. It is their prerogative to take your advice or not. There is no need to belabor the point.

That being said, Everyone should carefully consider others opinions. No one knows everything, hubris and complacency are you worst enemies. Especially, when it come to safety, you have a lot more to loose then an argument, if you get it wrong. I know this first hand...
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Im in the position at work where Im, "The old head". We have a lot of Haitian immigrants coming into the trade (Trenton NJ is 20-30% Haitian right now) and I have nothing but high praise for their work ethic and ability to learn.

However.....!

Man do they take risks. Safety risks, using the wrong tool for the job, going about things bassakwards.

With these guys its not for lack of care, or ignorance, its just that they didn't grow up in a world like ours and don't know what they don't know. Im good friends with several of these guys, even though at first they thought I was coming down on them out of proportion to the issue at hand.

Once they realized I had an actual desire to help them, and that I saw them as our plants future and had a direct need for them to be safe and careful they came to see me as a friend.


Now I alluded to personal maturity earlier. These guys have seen things you couldn't imagine in their homeland. People without adequate food getting their "Homes" destroyed by hurricanes and earthquakes, then having their government turn a blind eye.

That kind of thing leaves a mark on a guy. So while they may initially be suspicious, they leave emotion off the table. This is due mainly I think to the fact that they have seen so much a simple reprimand is not even on their radar.
 
RaisedByWolves said:
Im in the position at work where Im, "The old head". We have a lot of Haitian immigrants coming into the trade (Trenton NJ is 20-30% Haitian right now) and I have nothing but high praise for their work ethic and ability to learn.

However.....!

Man do they take risks. Safety risks, using the wrong tool for the job, going about things bassakwards.

With these guys its not for lack of care, or ignorance, its just that they didn't grow up in a world like ours and don't know what they don't know. Im good friends with several of these guys, even though at first they thought I was coming down on them out of proportion to the issue at hand.

Once they realized I had an actual desire to help them, and that I saw them as our plants future and had a direct need for them to be safe and careful they came to see me as a friend.


Now I alluded to personal maturity earlier. These guys have seen things you couldn't imagine in their homeland. People without adequate food getting their "Homes" destroyed by hurricanes and earthquakes, then having their government turn a blind eye.

That kind of thing leaves a mark on a guy. So while they may initially be suspicious, they leave emotion off the table. This is due mainly I think to the fact that they have seen so much a simple reprimand is not even on their radar.
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To be clear, I was only speaking in the context of advice given in an online forum. If one is directly supervising or training personnel, they should use only the highest safety standards appropriate for the task, regardless of their own acceptability of risk.
In 40+ years as a general contractor along with 20 years running a professional woodworking shop. I never had an employee get seriously injured on the job. In all the time, the worst injury was only to myself, as shown in the photos above...
 
All thread drift aside, The thrust of my question was due to the fact that I used the search function to sort through information already contained in threads similar to the topic I was trying to learn. My only question was whether to revive old threads with conflicting responses in them to set the record straight for others who might use the search function instead of starting a new thread on my topic and having to wait for responses...

My conclusion (a few pages ago) was that reviving old threads to correct searched information is significantly different than posting a contrary opinion in an ongoing thread. At the time when I was searching I felt the need to dissect the topic completely because the subject was beyond my current (then) knowledge. I was designing something that needed me to thoroughly understand a complex subject in order to get the dimensions right. I thought about reviving the thread with the perceived error as a way of checking my newly acquired understanding by showing the mistake and by getting a clarification of what I perceived as a mistake.

After I started this thread, I used my new understanding to complete the task of design my gears. I viewed them in an online viewer because my autocad2002 wouldn't open the .stl files. After viewing them, I felt confident enough to order them 3D printed in nylon from Shapeways. I felt pretty confident that I understand the topic now.

My conclusion is that reviving old threads to point out "mistakes" is not a good way to get clarification. If I need clarification, I'm going to start a new thread on the subject and let sleeping dogs lie...
 
o0norton0o said:
All thread drift aside, The thrust of my question was due to the fact that I used the search function to sort through information already contained in threads similar to the topic I was trying to learn. My only question was whether to revive old threads with conflicting responses in them to set the record straight for others who might use the search function instead of starting a new thread on my topic and having to wait for responses...

My conclusion (a few pages ago) was that reviving old threads to correct searched information is significantly different than posting a contrary opinion in an ongoing thread. At the time when I was searching I felt the need to dissect the topic completely because the subject was beyond my current (then) knowledge. I was designing something that needed me to thoroughly understand a complex subject in order to get the dimensions right. I thought about reviving the thread with the perceived error as a way of checking my newly acquired understanding by showing the mistake and by getting a clarification of what I perceived as a mistake.

After I started this thread, I used my new understanding to complete the task of design my gears. I viewed them in an online viewer because my autocad2002 wouldn't open the .stl files. After viewing them, I felt confident enough to order them 3D printed in nylon. After viewing the gears I designed, I felt pretty confident that I understood the topic well enough to order my gears from Shapeways.

My conclusion is that reviving old threads to point out "mistakes" is not a good way to get clarification. If I need clarification, I'm going to start a new thread and let sleeping dogs lie...
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Or, start a new thread and link to the old thread asking for clarification.

That way the dogs sleep and you open a new discussion that will uncover whatever information you're looking for.
 
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