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[4]

Why no small high-quality lathes?

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7HC

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#31
None of the small Grizzly's have power cross feed.

And I agree completely. One of the things I hate most about these small Chinese lathes is the gear changing. That is a real pain. It also increases the footprint of the lathe because you have to be able to open the gear-cover door. That either adds a foot to the length or requires the machine be on casters so it can easily be pulled out for access. But that is a problem with a 600-1,000 lb lathe that would better be solidly mounted.

What is a Jet 10x24? I didn't know they made one. A simple search doesn't turn it up. Can you give me a pointer?

Thanks, Keith
That's all a good argument for a CNC conversion (although it won't shorten the lathe's footprint).

Threads and tapers are cut by programming rather than gear changing, and the cross-feed is powered as part of the conversion.
Using a pendant, as discussed elsewhere, will allow you retain full manual control.


M
 

george wilson

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#33
keithd: There is a picture near the beginning of this thread of a 10x24" lathe,cream colored, for sale on craigslist in Tampa. It is exactly the same model(not the same name) as my 1976 Jet 10x24. It seems to be missing the follower rest. I really enjoyed that lathe,and only got rid of it due to space. Plus,I needed the money to help pay for a 16"x40" lathe which I bought in 1986,and still have. I really don't have a lot of extra room now either,or I might buy the lathe in Tampa myself,just to get the model back.
 

Ray C

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#35
I'm starting to hate this thread because some of these smaller lathes look really, really cool... -And you know what that means? Time to start rearranging the shop! My first lathe was a 16" Lablond that my father taught me with starting before primary school. LOL, he called that one we had in the garage "a baby machine". ...Finally getting to the point where big iron = heavy iron and I'm gett'n too old for that crap. Man, these small machines look really tempting.


All this discussion of Jet, Grizzly etc etc.
I thought the Op specified high quality??
Again, a bit long but if you cant muster a few ft via some rearanging - I dunno
http://www.standard-modern.com/1334.html
 

jumps4

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#36
wholesale tool is very poor on the information they give out on their equipment but the cz300 i showed you is 23" between centers has power cross feed and reverse tumbler. i have located the lathe in other places with specs including one of the original taiwanese made lathes for $1150 barley used, very clean.
here are the specs, click on english
http://spanish.alibaba.com/product-gs/cz1224-cz300-precision-bench-lathe-289069218.html
here is the used one in tampa florida, if i had room this one would be in my shop
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/tls/3399190461.html
the taiwan version is really well built I hear.
steve

3Ge3F73o95Z55M85J5cb9e2f8a725431d120a.jpg CZ1224_CZ300_Precision_Bench_Lathe.jpg
 

jumps4

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#37
in the crate the one on alibaba is only 56" long
sorry i post the craigslist one already but it is a 10 x 24 probably not too long for your needs.
steve
 

george wilson

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#38
The Spanish lathe is METRIC. Also,if it has anything to do with Alibaba(Al Babin),I'd strongly advise you to stay entirely away from it. He seems to be a very well known character of dubious virtue from what I have read in MANY postings concerning him. I don't know him personally. Just relaying what I've read on other forums.
 

jumps4

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#39
my point for the alibaba one was the specs are all there to read. but it does cut metric and american threads.
steve
 

jumps4

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#40
i just reread the entire thread, has to be under 53" total length under $5000 for 11" not chinese...
almost every feature available on a lathe...
we would probably have better luck looking for a unicorn or santa clause i think
steve
 

keithd

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#41
Its another possibility, but not what I'm after.

The footprint is perfect but it's not a high-quality lathe or high feature lathe. No Cam Lock chuck. Two-bolt compound hold-down. No power feed reverse for left-hand threads or threading away from the chuck. Common lead screw for turning and threading. No VFD.

I might have to settle for it if I can't find something better, but it's far from ideal.

I don't know why every small lathe seems to have some undesirable set of features. I'm not sure why this is. What I'm asking for has got to be similar to what anyone looking for lathe in this size range would want. It's like the people who design these things have never used them.

--
Keith
 

keithd

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#42
keithd: There is a picture near the beginning of this thread of a 10x24" lathe,cream colored, for sale on craigslist in Tampa. It is exactly the same model(not the same name) as my 1976 Jet 10x24. It seems to be missing the follower rest. I really enjoyed that lathe,and only got rid of it due to space. Plus,I needed the money to help pay for a 16"x40" lathe which I bought in 1986,and still have. I really don't have a lot of extra room now either,or I might buy the lathe in Tampa myself,just to get the model back.
Did Jet ever make (brand & market) that lathe? I've never seen a Jet version. I've done searches and never turned up a Jet version.

I live on the other coast so I can't consider this particular Millport lathe. Looks okay but I don't have any specs or a user manual.

Thanks, Keith
 

keithd

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#44
i just reread the entire thread, has to be under 53" total length under $5000 for 11" not chinese...
almost every feature available on a lathe...
we would probably have better luck looking for a unicorn or santa clause i think
steve
Exactly right.

While it might seem like I'm asking a lot, I am not asking for the impossible. Every feature I've mentioned exists on at least one of the dozen or so lathes that currently exist in this size range. It's just that no one lathe includes all of them. None of my features are particularly costly. Cam Lock. Reverse power feed. Quality spindle bearings. Sturdy compound. Etc.

The Precision Mathews PM1127VF is very close for under $2,000. Given the existence proof of the PM machine and the SB1001 & 2, I guarantee I could specify, design, manufacture, and market a quality, precision lathe with a feature set everyone here would love for $3,000. The PM is close to perfect with the notable exception of it's funky threading capability, which is a show stopper for me. The SBs are almost perfect except I need one in between the 8K and 10K sizes.

It is a mystery why what I'm looking for does not exist. If it did, everyone in the market for a lathe in this class would buy my lathe and take the one they currently own to the scrap-metal yard. You'd think capitalism would have filled this void by now. :)

--
Keith
 

Ray C

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#45
It seems all the smaller PM lathes have 8-56 TPI threads. Do you need finer than that of is there some other issue? It might be worth calling Matt and asking if a different gear in the drivetrain could accommodate you. I speak to him often and I'll ask.
 

samthedog

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#46
Buying a machine is all about compromises. Which feature would cause you the least inconvenience if it were missing? I would start there and look at my options. Otherwise as others have said, you are probably looking for the holy grail and will still be looking in several years time.

Paul.
 

george wilson

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#47
Jet marketed EXACTLY the same lathe as the cream colored craigslist one. Why is that not understood? I think I mentioned it several times. It's the same lathe rebadged. It will do everything you want. Buy it.
 

Jerry

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#48
you know I sympathize with the original poster about lack of certain attributes of machine tools. But and this is a big but one needs to compromise as was stated and get on with your work. If you wait for the perfect lathe to show up you will have lost a lot of time you can never get back. I know a lot of people who throw up all kinds of road blocks and life passes them by. Life passes in an instant, don't let it slip between your fingers.
Jerry
 

samthedog

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#51
I guess that is the trade off. Either compromise on some features, or compromise a whole lot on budget. I wanted the perfect lathe but got bye on an Emco V10 for 4 years. I didn't want to be without a lathe and made do until My Chipmaster came along. It is much better than the Emco but also cost 4k USD for a 48 year old lathe. Even then it is a compromise between features and availability of parts.

You won't get the perfect lathe but if you can compromise a bit, you will get something that will do nearly everything you want.

Paul.
 

OakRidgeGuy

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#52
7HC I was going to mention the G4002, but held back on it.. I myself have been looking at lathes, for further down the line. I am not worried about crossfeed and stuff like that. It will prob end up getting CNC'd, but other features like the D1-4 I will want on it. Only because it will have a 5C chuck in it most of the time.
 

keithd

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#53
It seems all the smaller PM lathes have 8-56 TPI threads. Do you need finer than that of is there some other issue? It might be worth calling Matt and asking if a different gear in the drivetrain could accommodate you. I speak to him often and I'll ask.
It can do 8x56. It is not lack of small threads that worries me. In fact, I don't have a specific worry that I can articulate. All I know is that I have read several reviews of the PM that complained about its threading capability, or lack thereof. I think it might have to do with the combination of speeds, but the reviews I saw were not specific. On thing I happened to notice, because I needed it recently for an HVLP adaptor part, that the PM cannot turn an 11.5 TPI thread, which is standard US garden hose.

--
Keith
 

keithd

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#54
you know I sympathize with the original poster about lack of certain attributes of machine tools. But and this is a big but one needs to compromise as was stated and get on with your work. If you wait for the perfect lathe to show up you will have lost a lot of time you can never get back. I know a lot of people who throw up all kinds of road blocks and life passes them by. Life passes in an instant, don't let it slip between your fingers.
Jerry
Sure, tradeoffs always exist. But a tradeoff occurs when the existence of one feature precludes the existence of another so you are forced to chose one or the other.

The features I'm looking for are not tradeoffs. It is entirely possible for one lathe to have them all, and have them at a reasonable price. They are not mutually exclusive.

Besides, I have a lathe that I use all the time. I do not need to replace it tomorrow. I can live with it until I'm satisfied that I've found the best lathe that exists for my needs.

Life is not passing me by just because I'm taking some time to find the best machine I can find.

--
Keith
 

keithd

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#55
Jet marketed EXACTLY the same lathe as the cream colored craigslist one. Why is that not understood? I think I mentioned it several times. It's the same lathe rebadged. It will do everything you want. Buy it.
I'm not doubting you. It is just that Googling a JET 10x24 turns up nothing but wood lathes. Maybe it existed, but if it did it was rare or old or something that makes it hard to find today.

--
Keith
 

7HC

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#56
......................The features I'm looking for are not tradeoffs. It is entirely possible for one lathe to have them all, and have them at a reasonable price. They are not mutually exclusive........Keith
Maybe it's not possible to have them all, and have them at a reasonable price. Perhaps they are mutually exclusive and it has to be one or the other.


Incidently, I did mention it before, but if you get a lathe with the basic physical features you want relating to size, type of chuck etc., you could then CNC it, making it capable of turning whatever, threads, tapers, balls etc. that you require without worrying about changing gears or belts, you'd just have to use a keyboard.


M
 

kd4gij

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#57
Sure, tradeoffs always exist. But a tradeoff occurs when the existence of one feature precludes the existence of another so you are forced to chose one or the other.

The features I'm looking for are not tradeoffs. It is entirely possible for one lathe to have them all, and have them at a reasonable price. They are not mutually exclusive.

Besides, I have a lathe that I use all the time. I do not need to replace it tomorrow. I can live with it until I'm satisfied that I've found the best lathe that exists for my needs.

Life is not passing me by just because I'm taking some time to find the best machine I can find.

--
Keith
If you think you can build one and market it in that price range go for it. But most people looking for all of those features also wan't something bigger. And there is 14x40's out there. So I think you would be hard prest to sale enough to recoup the start up cost.

Just my thoughts.

Marty
 

AR1911

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#58
I have an Enco 1024 which is just like that Jet. they also made a Jet 12x24 (and Enco).
Quite a few of those around. taiwanese, and they have the 2nd feed shaft, plus a true QCGB. It's a real lathe.

Be careful buying any new lathe under 12" swing. I haven't seen one that has a true QCGB. I was about to buy an 11" PM when I found out what looks like a QCGB is really some sort of hybrid that uses change gears. Deal-killer for me.

I'd be looking at the G4002 or G4003 Grizzly.
 

keithd

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#59
Maybe it's not possible to have them all, and have them at a reasonable price. Perhaps they are mutually exclusive and it has to be one or the other.


Incidently, I did mention it before, but if you get a lathe with the basic physical features you want relating to size, type of chuck etc., you could then CNC it, making it capable of turning whatever, threads, tapers, balls etc. that you require without worrying about changing gears or belts, you'd just have to use a keyboard.


M
Yes, its a good thought.

I debated getting a CNC mill vs a manual mill. I finally decided on the manual. The problem with most CNCs is that making one of something can be a pain. Some CNCs have manual overrides, but often the CNC mechanisms get in the way. A CNC in manual mode is not the same as a manual mill. Mostly I do one-off stuff, rarely more than one of anything. The other issue is that CNC motors add to the footprint and operating envelope. My main problem is a lack of space.

CNC might get in the way less on a lathe than on a mill. And you can cut shapes with CNC that you couldn't dream of manually. But still, I like manual machining. Not sure I want to give that up.

Thanks, Keith
 

keithd

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#60
Maybe it's not possible to have them all, and have them at a reasonable price. Perhaps they are mutually exclusive and it has to be one or the other.


Incidently, I did mention it before, but if you get a lathe with the basic physical features you want relating to size, type of chuck etc., you could then CNC it, making it capable of turning whatever, threads, tapers, balls etc. that you require without worrying about changing gears or belts, you'd just have to use a keyboard.


M
The ones I want I am positive could all be had at a reasonable price. As I said initially, I'm willing to pay three times as much as much to get the features I want, all else being equal. None of the features I've ask for are expensive, which I can tell because they each individually exist on a collection of other lathes, all of which cost substantially less than I'm willing to pay. Most of the features I want are a matter of design choices more than incremental cost.

--
Keith
 
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