When will the Argon shortage end?

[RJSakowski]

Interesting topic. I know nothing about it, but found this after a little reading...

US CO2 shortage: More plant closures set to impact supply in the coming weeks

“I believe this is going to be a challenging summer/fall. CO2 demand continues to outpace the capacity being added and the current outages are only adding to that stress,” that’s what Ned Lane, CEO of CK Supply, told gasworld earlier this week in relation to the...

www.gasworld.com

Related and potentially devastating concern:

Shortage of CO2 could threaten nation’s beer supply​

I posted this, https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/not-the-beer.83748/, at the beginning of the pandemic when everybody was in lockdown and the ethanol fuel industry was shutting down due to a lockdown caused reduction in vehicular traffic. I had hoped we were past that.

 

[Winegrower]

I called Airgas, & they charge $200 to exchange an empty customer owned cylinder for a fully charged cylinder of Argon.

Several years ago I took Airgas off my personal list of approved vendors.

 

[graham-xrf]

Related and potentially devastating concern:

Shortage of CO2 could threaten nation’s beer supply​

Unfortunately, I could not access the link (apparently unavailable to European Economic Area because of "data protection laws").

BUT..
Re: CO2 shortage and beer - why?
Beer makes it's own CO2, lots of it, including the sparkle from the second fermentation after clearing that gives the beer it's head.

 

[WobblyHand]

Clearly the big brewers aren't doing it the traditional way any more, hence the need for CO2. The only CO2 I ever used was the byproduct of fermentation.

 

[G-ManBart]

Unfortunately, I could not access the link (apparently unavailable to European Economic Area because of "data protection laws").

BUT..
Re: CO2 shortage and beer - why?
Beer makes it's own CO2, lots of it, including the sparkle from the second fermentation after clearing that gives the beer it's head.

I was pretty good friends with the owner of the LWS and she told me the majority of her C02 sales were to cannabis grow operations. She claimed the "pot heads" were a real pain to deal with...lol

 

[twraska]

Posted on 8/23/22:

I just went to refill my spare cylinder of Argon, and I was *very* lucky to buy their last one in that size. It cost me $65. I am in the Bay Area, California, and the company is Matheson Gas.

They said to make it last because I will not be able to find any Argon in this area until such time that we get past the Argon shortage.

This also applies to C25, as that is 75% Argon.

Matheson Gas has existing contract customers, and they try to fill those contracts. They are not accepting any new contract customers, at least not for these shielding gases.

They have plenty of acetylene and oxygen.

The supply of CO2 is also a little tight, but there is not a critical shortage as with Argon and C25.

Does anybody know anything about when this shortage might end?

I will reserve my Argon on hand for only aluminum and titanium jobs, and only MIG (I use C25) when I can’t use gas or stick on that job. I wonder if I will end up trying 100% CO2 for MIG.

Many people have said that gas welding is dead or dying. I don’t know what else I would use on thin steel if I can’t TIG or MIG. I won’t use a 1/16” stick electrode on anything thinner than 1/16”.

CO2 is tight, yet the greenies are wanting to build pipelines to pump it back in the ground! Only in America.

 

[graham-xrf]

CO2 is tight, yet the greenies are wanting to build pipelines to pump it back in the ground! Only in America.

Not that I like their image, but the greenies only align with what is a manifest truth well known to others of a more scientific nature. If "CO2 is tight", then it is an artificial marketing or supply situation, possibly confined only to the OP supplier.

Now also, if not plain to all, is that we want our CO2 in handy safe cylinders at pressure, so we can expend it shielding our arcs, before it makes it's way into the atmosphere. The tonnage of by-product that takes the direct route out of every kind of heat engine and fuel burning process is never available to "alleviate a shortage" via a spell in a cylinder. It goes straight up the power station flue, or out of the twin exhausts on the big truck.

Some "greenie" philosophy notions are apocalyptic - and disagreeably nuts with it, but pumping CO2 back into the ground is not a trick they invented, even if they jumped on it. Also, I do not think it is an outlandish scheme.

I am a occasional low consumption argon user, so I don't find myself in need of planning to avoid shortages, but it occurs to me that the the very compression process to extract the argon, itself also puts CO2 into the atmosphere.

 

[twraska]

Not that I like their image, but the greenies only align with what is a manifest truth well known to others of a more scientific nature. If "CO2 is tight", then it is an artificial marketing or supply situation, possibly confined only to the OP supplier.

Now also, if not plain to all, is that we want our CO2 in handy safe cylinders at pressure, so we can expend it shielding our arcs, before it makes it's way into the atmosphere. The tonnage of by-product that takes the direct route out of every kind of heat engine and fuel burning process is never available to "alleviate a shortage" via a spell in a cylinder. It goes straight up the power station flue, or out of the twin exhausts on the big truck.

Some "greenie" philosophy notions are apocalyptic - and disagreeably nuts with it, but pumping CO2 back into the ground is not a trick they invented, even if they jumped on it. Also, I do not think it is an outlandish scheme.

I am a occasional low consumption argon user, so I don't find myself in need of planning to avoid shortages, but it occurs to me that the the very compression process to extract the argon, itself also puts CO2 into the atmosphere.

But, as a farmer, my plants need CO2, and,,,, if you think back to Jr high science class, my plants convert it to sugar and O2. The greater the CO2 concentration the faster they grow and therefore convert more to O2.

 

[Provincial]

Since burning hydrocarbons (fossil fuels) requires two atoms of oxygen for each atom of hydrogen or carbon, why are we not seeing a reduction in atmospheric oxygen? I think there is more activity from plants than is being recognized. Much of this is likely happening in the oceans.

 

[jmkasunich]

Since burning hydrocarbons (fossil fuels) requires two atoms of oxygen for each atom of hydrogen or carbon, why are we not seeing a reduction in atmospheric oxygen? I think there is more activity from plants than is being recognized. Much of this is likely happening in the oceans.

I suspect that the oxygen is going down to match the CO2 going up. But it's a matter of relative numbers vs absolute numbers. In 1960, the CO2 content in the atmosphere was about 0.031%. In 2020 it was about 0.041%. In comparison, oxygen makes up about 21% of the atmosphere. If every CO2 molecule added to the atmosphere was created by taking away an oxygen molecule, then the oxygen content would go down from 21.00% to 20.99%. That tiny change in oxygen content is unnoticeable. But CO2 increasing from 0.031 to 0.041 is a 33% relative increase in CO2 over 60 years. A little CO2 has a big effect.