What oil to use Sheldon 13 inch

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todd281

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I have a Sheldon 13-inch lathe. The model number stamped in the ways is tmu-18579. there is also a m-7 stamped in the other way. From looking at the pictures on John Knox's website I appears to be a 1955 vintage lathe. I would like to change a service it but need to know what oil to use in the headstock [ISO 68]? Way oil on the rest? I tried e-mailing Mr Knox, but did not get a response. Thanks in advance. lathe1.jpg
 
todd281 said:
I have a Sheldon 13-inch lathe. The model number stamped in the ways is tmu-18579. there is also a m-7 stamped in the other way. From looking at the pictures on John Knox's website I appears to be a 1955 vintage lathe. I would like to change a service it but need to know what oil to use in the headstock [ISO 68]? Way oil on the rest? I tried e-mailing Mr Knox, but did not get a response. Thanks in advance. View attachment 437382
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Unfortunately Mr Knox passed away last year. He had a fall that did considerable damage and never recovered. I had the privilege of talking with him on several occasions when I acquired a 1960 WM 56P lathe.

One of the questions I posed to him was “what oil should be used”? His response was that he recommended 10W-30 detergent motor oil. I was a bit shocked and asked why? He answered that with the improvements in oils it is far superior to any oil previously specified.

Per his recommendation I’ve been using it in my lathe almost 8 years with no problems. The machine has run as long as 60 hours in a week and never gets more than warm to the touch
 
I don't have a Sheldon, and I certainly don't want to dispute what the late Mr. Knox said....

But, isn't the common advice to use non-detergent oil in machines that don't have filtration? Something about particles being kept in suspension for the filter to remove vs. settling at the botom of the sump.

I run ISO68 tractor (hydraulic) oil in my vintage Taiwanese lathe but my advice for folks who used to pay me big bucks for racing kart engines was to use the proper ammount of quality oil and change it frequently. I'm sure 10w 30 will work fine though, changing it is the right call.

John
 
So sorry to hear about Mr Knox having passed. He will be missed by all who own a Sheldon Lathe. I also am kind of surprised about the 10-30 detergent oil recommendation.
 
According to Mr. Knox the original detergent motor oils had a tendency to foam, thus creating lubrication problems in non-pressurized lubrication systems. Later versions have eliminated that problem.
 
matthewsx said:
I don't have a Sheldon, and I certainly don't want to dispute what the late Mr. Knox said....

But, isn't the common advice to use non-detergent oil in machines that don't have filtration? Something about particles being kept in suspension for the filter to remove vs. settling at the botom of the sump.

I run ISO68 tractor (hydraulic) oil in my vintage Taiwanese lathe but my advice for folks who used to pay me big bucks for racing kart engines was to use the proper ammount of quality oil and change it frequently. I'm sure 10w 30 will work fine though, changing it is the right call.

John
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Manufacturers seem to spec odd lubricants from time to time. The hydraulic system in my Case 224 tractor uses 15W-40 motor oil. My end loader uses ISO 68 (equivalent of SAE 20) for temperatures from 0*F to 80*F. For temperatures above 80*F it uses ISO 100 (equivalent of 30W). I tried leaving the ISO 100 in it for year-round application, but when the temperatures fell below freezing the machine had to warm up nearly half an hour before it would move. I now use ISO 68 year-round. Warm up time in cold weather is down to about 10 minutes, and when temperatures rise above the 80* mark I just park it and go have a cold one.
 
matthewsx said:
I don't have a Sheldon, and I certainly don't want to dispute what the late Mr. Knox said....

But, isn't the common advice to use non-detergent oil in machines that don't have filtration? Something about particles being kept in suspension for the filter to remove vs. settling at the botom of the sump.

I run ISO68 tractor (hydraulic) oil in my vintage Taiwanese lathe but my advice for folks who used to pay me big bucks for racing kart engines was to use the proper ammount of quality oil and change it frequently. I'm sure 10w 30 will work fine though, changing it is the right call.

John
Click to expand...
I've had two Sheldon lathes and I don't think the type of oil makes much difference. The headstock doesn't have a sump and the bearings for the spindle get oil from cups mounted to the side of the casting. There is a passage to the bottom of the bearing and that's about it, although some versions did have wick oilers. I use an ISO 46 hydraulic oil recommended for the headstock on my Clausing which has a significantly higher top RPM. I'd rather not have a detergent oil in such a small system (a couple of ounces)...I'm happy to think any contaminants settle to the bottom of the bearing cup and casting. That reminds me...I've been meaning to suction out the old oil and replace it!
 
I dislike having to disagree with Mr. Knox but the reason usually given for avoiding use of "high detergent" engine oil is the significant difference in expected operating or normal operating temperature between an internal combustion engine and a normal lathe or mill. Simply put, an I.C. engine expects to operate at a much higher temperature than any machine tool. One purpose of the detergents added to engine oils is to capture moisture and spit it out the tailpipe during the warm-up process. Which hopefully never happens with a lathe or mill. The reason for not using HD engine oils is the detergents, not the multi-viscosity rating usually also found in those oils.
 
You can do as you wish however, I'm inclined to go with John Knox advice since he was a design engineer that worked for Sheldon for many years. The company I worked for designed and built 90% of its own food processing and packaging machinery. Some machines were subjected to high temperatures in the cooking sections while those in the cooling sections were often below 0*. Those running in packaging areas saw temperatures in the 32* to 34* range during production hours and were washed down with 140* water and detergent solutions every night.

The company was so concerned with machine performance and longevity that we had a Lubrication Engineer on staff. It was his job to assess performance of the machines throughout the expected temperature ranges and recommend the proper lubricants. In almost all cases he went with standard automotive lubricants for anything outside the food contact zone.

These were not small machines. The larger ones were 12' wide, over 200' long and would process up to 118,000 pounds of product at a time. Other machines would cook and cool, and package 18,000 lbs. of product over 2 shifts 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Many of the machines were going on 30 years old when I started with the company and were well over 50 years old when I retired. The vast majority of them were over 60 years old when they were retired.

10W-30 detergent motor oil was a common lubricant for smaller gear boxes working under both hot and cold conditions. It was changed on regular hour-based increments. All maintenance and failure information were tracked. In all cases components met or exceeded their expected lifespan when maintenance routines were performed at the proper intervals.

Given my personal experience with these machines and the advice of John Knox I'm going stick with his recommendations.
 
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Sheldon actually published an article on lubricating their lathes I had forgotten about. I just looked at it again...they specify an S.A.E. No. 20 Machine Oil. That equates to ISO 46, which is what I use. I just couldn't remember how I settled on that.

Since there isn't a drain port or any sort of sump the small quantity of oil that's in there is staying in there for extended periods of time for most users. That's why I wouldn't use a detergent oil that holds contaminants in suspension rather than letting them settle to the bottom...your bearings are going to be living in whatever's in suspension.

Everyone is free to make their own choices :)
 
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