What are the risks of an electrical setup like this.

[D.sebens]

The Mill/Drill I had in the 90’s was wired that way: just got a 220V bulb - cheap, easy and most importantly SAFE.

I feel like it would need a double pole switch for safety. At least by todays standards

 

[ChazzC]

I feel like it would need a double pole switch for safety. At least by todays standards

To meet Code, yes; however, if no changes are made to the machine or lamp not necessary to meet code. As long as the frames are grounded it’s safe (don’t change the bulb without pulling the plug!).

 

[D.sebens]

To meet Code, yes; however, if no changes are made to the machine or lamp not necessary to meet code. As long as the frames are grounded it’s safe (don’t change the bulb without pulling the plug!).

A two wire lamp would not be grounded though. Unless yours was 3 wire. I don’t think you’re supposed to rely on a indirect ground.

 

[Shotgun]

As wired the lathe is grounded just no neutral. And make sure nobody takes this as combative. I’m just looking for why it’s unsafe.

I can talk to this, 'cause I tried it with my knee mill. Then one day with the light on, I wanted to turn the X crank faster, so I balanced myself with a hand on the lathe (which is grounded).

I let go REAL fast, and I'm just happy that I was able to. The ground wire should have been capable off carrying away all the current that the hot wire brought in, but when I touched the lathe I created a parallel path for the current to flow in. And some of that current took advantage of it. The only reason I was able to pull back is that the ground did take MOST (not all) of the current.

You'll notice that the neutral wire in all your other circuits is covered, and protected just like it is a hot wire. Well, that's because IT IS!! That neutral wire has to carry just as much current as the hot one.

 

[matthewsx]

I can talk to this, 'cause I tried it with my knee mill. Then one day with the light on, I wanted to turn the X crank faster, so I balanced myself with a hand on the lathe (which is grounded).

I let go REAL fast, and I'm just happy that I was able to. The ground wire should have been capable off carrying away all the current that the hot wire brought in, but when I touched the lathe I created a parallel path for the current to flow in. And some of that current took advantage of it. The only reason I was able to pull back is that the ground did take MOST (not all) of the current.

You'll notice that the neutral wire in all your other circuits is covered, and protected just like it is a hot wire. Well, that's because IT IS!! That neutral wire has to carry just as much current as the hot one.

This is the reason to change the machine now. You don’t know who will have it next and what their understanding will be. If it gets wired correctly when you have it you can have some confidence that it won’t become a hazard in the future.

220v single phase will give a nasty shock but probably won’t kill. Unless it does.

John

 

[MyLilMule]

I feel like this thread has become:

"Why shouldn't I connect the ground as the neutral to my lamp"

"Because it could kill you"

"But how"

"Because of electrical stuff" (not being a licensed electrician or an electrical engineer, I abbreviated).

"But what if I.."

"It could kill you or someone else"

"But how about ..."

"I tried that and got shocked. It could seriously kill you."

"But I don't want to buy another wire and a plug."

"Buy the wire and the plug."

 

[strantor]

"But how"

I think "but how" is a valid question and I think it's a shame how often it gets shut down. I was worried how he started off sounding like "I already plan to do this the dangerous way, but...", but I have been encouraged by the level of discussion that's happened here in spite of that.

I'm thinking back to Driver's Ed 20 years ago, my instructor going into the physics of exactly what happens during every 1/100th of a second when a 6,000lb SUV runs a red light and slams into the side of compact car at 70mph. That level of detailed explanation was a lot more compelling than "look both ways before entering an intersection even if the light is green, because smarter people said so."

IMO if it's worth doing then it's worth explaining.

"But I don't want to buy another wire and a plug."
"Buy the wire and the plug."

Unless I misunderstood, he already committed to implementing the proper solution a while back and all the dialog you're referring to was in the first few replies. Everything after was supplemental.

 

[MyLilMule]

IMO if it's worth doing then it's worth explaining.

Meh.

I know it's a bad idea to weld on zinc plated material without proper ventilation or a proper respirator, because I was told it could make me very sick or even kill me. I don't need to understand the chemistry or how it affects human anatomy or have any of those details explained to me. "It creates gases that could kill you" was all I needed to know. Especially when the same information is given to me by multiple people.

I suppose if I was a "doubting thomas" and really wanted to know, I'd do the research on my own from qualified sources. As many smart people that are on this forum, in matters of things that could kill me, I'm going to find sources that are known to be accredited - some of the people here are, I just don't know that.

I will (almost) always err on the side of caution and NOT do the thing that is against protocols and that many people have told me "it can kill you" - even if I doubt their claim.

 

[strantor]

Meh.

I know it's a bad idea to weld on zinc plated material without proper ventilation or a proper respirator, because I was told it could make me very sick or even kill me. I don't need to understand the chemistry or how it affects human anatomy or have any of those details explained to me. "It creates gases that could kill you" was all I needed to know. Especially when the same information is given to me by multiple people.

I suppose if I was a "doubting thomas" and really wanted to know, I'd do the research on my own from qualified sources. As many smart people that are on this forum, in matters of things that could kill me, I'm going to find sources that are known to be accredited - some of the people here are, I just don't know that.

I will (almost) always err on the side of caution and NOT do the thing that is against protocols and that many people have told me "it can kill you" - even if I doubt their claim.

You provided enough insight into your own thought processes for me to understand that if you were the one with unanswered questions on this topic, there would probably not be a forum thread about it.

The existence of this thread is evidence that not everyone thinks the same way and "because smart people said so" isn't a compelling reason for some people.

Different tactics for different people. I could tell in post #1 that the customary "thou shalt" answer would not suffice for him, but from your post I suspect that it probably would for you.

Further it seems you are critical both of the asking and the answering of questions for which a "thou shalt" answer exists, which I do not understand. I guess it's just another example of how not everyone thinks the same way.

 

[MyLilMule]

I would not make assumptions about me or my thought processes (if there are any) or of things about which I am or am not critical.