Vevor Drill Bit Sharpener Trials - Split Point Adjustment

[RickKr]

Do you need to adjust the split using your new set screw mod for every size bit you grind, or is it a one and done?
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Can't say yet on the split point adjustment for different sized bits, but I suspect not. Smallest I've done so far is 1/4" with a refinement of the cutting lips on the Tormek. Did not split point it. The collet chuck and fixtures seem to hold and align the bits nicely, so there's a good chance this setting will work for smaller bits. IF that were the case, it is a non-starter - way too much fiddling to have to change for different sizes.
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Thinking on split pointing smaller bits. I'm not sure I care at this point. Initially, I was interested in this feature, but now that I've tried it, I'm not sure how important it is for smaller bit sizes. I cannot think of a situation where I do not centerdrill holes when drilling in metal, even in wood, and most certainly not for drills 3/8" and larger. My drill indexes go up to 1/2" and in over 20 yrs of home shop work, I've not been bothered or even noticed the flat chisel points being a problem. Plus, with the four-facet point produced by using the Tormek, which puts a shallow point into the web, I think I'm less likely to notice. It is true that I have not been using split pointed drills in the larger sizes and if by having the option I might now notice a difference.

P.S. After posting this, I went looking for the article, by Joseph Mazoff, on drill point geometry I meant to include in my response to Gene T45 about tips for Tormek drill sharpening. I found some very interesting discussion about split points, on the veracity of split points on drills larger than 1/2" and differences in geometry:

"The conventional split point (CSP) is highly productive but is limited since it cannot be utilized on drills beyond 1/2" dia.",

and discussion of "conventional" and "modfied" split point geometries. From the included photos of split points, I cannot discern which type the Vevor produces. In that discussion, he references split points from 1/4" to 3" dia.

 

[RickKr]

Saw a youtube video on this somewhere which outlined split-point modifications. IIRC they substituted a different stone for a better finish. ...snip...

If anyone finds where finer grit wheels for the Vevor type machines are available, please post a link. I am very interested and will try them. Earlier, I did some searching but never came up with anything. I've not seen this type of machine before, maybe it is newer and there hasn't been an aftermarket for such things developed yet. I have been unable to find an parts available for it either (I'd be interested in getting the jig parts for the point angle grinding to try adapting it to my Tormek).

 

[GeneT45]

Thinking on split pointing smaller bits. I'm not sure I care at this point. Initially, I was interested in this feature, but now that I've tried it, I'm not sure how important it is for smaller bit sizes. I cannot think of a situation where I do not centerdrill holes when drilling in metal, even in wood, and most certainly not for drills 3/8" and larger. My drill indexes go up to 1/2" and in over 20 yrs of home shop work, I've not been bothered or even noticed the flat chisel points being a problem. Plus, with the four-facet point produced by using the Tormek, which puts a shallow point into the web, I think I'm less likely to notice. It is true that I have not been using split pointed drills in the larger sizes and if by having the option I might now notice a difference.

P.S. After posting this, I went looking for the article, by Joseph Mazoff, on drill point geometry I meant to include in my response to Gene T45 about tips for Tormek drill sharpening. I found some very interesting discussion about split points, on the veracity of split points on drills larger than 1/2" and differences in geometry:

"The conventional split point (CSP) is highly productive but is limited since it cannot be utilized on drills beyond 1/2" dia.",

and discussion of "conventional" and "modfied" split point geometries. From the included photos of split points, I cannot discern which type the Vevor produces. In that discussion, he references split points from 1/4" to 3" dia.

Thanks! I've seen the Mazoff article, and the Tormek video (BTW, both of your video links point to the Tormek video). I found this one:

when I looked for Alan Holtham. Haven't watched it yet, but I will later this morning.

Unfortunately my T-8 has only the SG Wheel. Fortunately I can do a good 4-facet grind on my single-lip cutter grinder. My impetus for wanting to make the Tormek fixture work is a) I paid $300+ for it, and b) they claim an extraordinary service life for drills sharpened with their tool, partly due to geometry, but mainly due to no heat introduced during sharpening. I do recall it taking "forever" - perhaps I'll grind the secondary bevel on the cutter grinder and the primary on the Tormek. I won't be investing in another wheel just to sharpen drills - the SG does what I need for every other application.

Thanks for the tips!
GsT

 

[RickKr]

That is the video. I have updated the link above. Thanks.

I get it about not wanting to invest in another grinding wheel just for drills. I think your though about using the cutter grinder for the secondary bevel and the Tormek for the primary is a good one. I'm going to try that using my 8", low speed grinder that has a 180 grit CBN wheel that way, CBN supposedly not generating so much heat. I'm thinking to take the secondary bevel past the mid-point of the tip so that the primary can bring it back to center. I'm also thinking of setting up for the secondary and run all the drills I have to do there and then setting up the Tormek and run through all for the primary. I'll have to look at the grind finish from the 180 wheel to see if I can tolerate it. Don't know when something like that might happen, I just sharpened all the drills that needed it.

What other tools do you use your Tormek for? I do knives, scissors, garden clippers, loppers, hand plane blades and chisels but have most of the jigs for everything else, including planer blades. Unfortunately, my planer has disposable blades, so I've not had the opportunity to use it. I don't do wood turning. I have adapted the Tormek jigs for doing non-cutting edge tools as well so it has been an extremely useful system. I wanted to use the moulding knife attachment to sharpen carbide and HSS inserts but haven't found quite the right approach, but I haven't given it a fulsome try.

Rick

 

[GeneT45]

I do mostly knives on mine these days, but even that is limited to 'big' sharpenings - a stone is just much more convenient when I'm only sharpening one or two. When I lived closer to my father I sharpened some plane blades for him. I should try scissors... Loppers would be an interesting task, but since leaving Oregon I haven't needed 'yard' tools... I have a T-8 with a lot of fixturing, but not the narrow hones that were in the Holtham video - those look handy!

GsT

 

[RickKr]

I have been in Oregon since 1975, Portland most of it, but the last eight years in NE, Halfway. Where were you?

I'll condition the loppers to say that the belt grinder works better. Mostly they have been for others.

The narrow honing wheels in Holtham's video are meant for wood turning tools, etc. with tight curves, recesses and such. They are probably good for serrated knives as well.

I have those honing wheels but do not find them as useful as a good, small, fine, triangular honing stones for deburring drill bits. I find it hard to control the honing angle on the wheels, but easy with the small triangular stones. The burrs in HSS are tough also and the leather wheels are not as effective as the stones, in my experience.

 

[GeneT45]

I was born in Portland, grew up in Silverton, but have lived in Salem, Roseburg, Klamath Falls, Beaverton, Forest Grove, and most recently (~2002 - 2019) in Albany.

GsT