Tooling up for silver soldering

erikmannie said:
I should have said, “All other things being equal, a bronze brazed joint is not as strong as a welded or silver brazed joint”. This is due to the relative properties of the materials in question, the least impressive of which is bronze.

Don’t get me wrong, I love bronze. It is just not the first material that I go to when looking for strength.
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Hi erikmannie,
I'm not just being ornery but again I have to disagree, the reason being I had a MAJOR disagreement about this some 30 odd years ago with the manager of the local vehicle testing station who failed a friends mini chopper motorcycle because he had Bronze welded the frame together. I should note that my friend had a business building custom racing bicycles and was well equipped with a vapor-flux unit, frame jig etc and very experienced,( he was the one who put me onto Castolin products). I got involved as he knew I had some literature to back up his claim the motor bike was safe.
Upshot was the manager chucked my books on the floor and called both of us nasty names. A business acquaintance at the time was the national manager for Reynolds Tubing Company and I got him on the 'phone. Testing station manager told him he was an idiot.
Result was testing station guy lost his job a week later. Reynolds Tubing Company specifically state that Brazing with a slip joint or Bronze welding is the preferred method of joining their high strength tubing as it does not affect the UTS or temper like fusion welding and that with Bronze welding the fillet provides more strength by spreading any forces over the joint.
Somewhere I have the Reynolds Company's 'Handbook of steel Tubing' and could scan the relevant pages.

Bronze not having enough strength? There are many types and many of the Admiralty Bronzes in particular make most of the common steels look like 98 lb weaklings. Bronze Lloyd's Register marine rated screws and bolts are expensive for a reason and tougher than nails.

At the end of the day as long as a joint is well designed and properly made it will most likely be stronger than the surrounding material and isn't going to break and that is all that matters.
 
A quick scan of Kijiji in my area showed this:

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The seller describes this: "Bernzomatic [sic] Oxy Map [sic] Torch - Brazing Torch".

Is this a capable setup? I know I can get MAPP bottles at Canadian Tire and elsewhere. Where does one even get the oxygen bottles?

Craig
 
@WCraig yes, with reservations. if it is cheap, why not give it a try?

I learned brazing 45 years ago with oxy acetylene, and still silver solder my carbides on the same way. I have 3 MAP torches for plumbing work, and wouldn't think of using one to braze a carbide on. Perhaps I will try it soon, and report back.
 
My setup uses a Smith little torch with an Oxygen concentrator. That way I don't have to deal with a gas supplier for O2 and I can just use a disposable propane or MAPP cylinder. Very easy and convenient. It is plenty hot to braze anything small.
Robert
 
@rwm cool! I never heard of an Oxygen concentrator before! I looked it up, and it looks slick! Sounds like you nave a nice setup!
 
Ken from ontario said:
If you buy the smaller size/hobby size tanks, (like" M" size acetylene) and for Oxygen (Q or L?) you'll own them up front, you'll get two tanks full of gas and the only time you'll swap them is in when you run out of gas and then you'll only pay for the fill up, these gas bottle in Canada need to be hydro tested every 5 years, I'm not sure about your state.

You are right ,you'll be alright with a medium size or even a smaller torch, Bob and Mikey gave me good advice on the size and type of torches in that thread I linked, the medium size Victor torch is what I got and it's plenty for my use . I also have heard good reviews on MECO by other welders from another site.
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I'm all for buying the right tool for the job but a torch is one of those tools that allow you to do many other jobs besides just brazing joints on a box or silver soldering with soft solder.

I'm no expert welder by any means but I've used O/A torches for most of my life and wouldn't want to be without one. Nowadays, I have no use for a full sized torch, although I own them. Mostly I use the Meco Midget like Ken said and it is good for almost any gas welding I'm likely to do. Unlike the little Smith torches, this one can actually weld steel, aluminum; it will braze and silver solder with ease and I often use it to harden smaller tool steel projects.

The Meco Midget weight about 6 oz. Tin Man Tech also sells lightweight hoses that make using this little torch very comfortable. Tips are available for most jobs in a hobby shop and the flame adjustment is very precise. Check out the Youtube videos on this torch. It is far more capable than you might think.

If you want a Mapp gas torch, look at the Bernzomatic TS8000. Very hot flame that will heat treat O-1 steel easily. It will do what I had to use two propane torches to do before.
 
mikey said:
I'm all for buying the right tool for the job but a torch is one of those tools that allow you to do many other jobs besides just brazing joints on a box or silver soldering with soft solder.

I'm no expert welder by any means but I've used O/A torches for most of my life and wouldn't want to be without one. Nowadays, I have no use for a full sized torch, although I own them. Mostly I use the Meco Midget like Ken said and it is good for almost any gas welding I'm likely to do. Unlike the little Smith torches, this one can actually weld steel, aluminum; it will braze and silver solder with ease and I often use it to harden smaller tool steel projects.

The Meco Midget weight about 6 oz. Tin Man Tech also sells lightweight hoses that make using this little torch very comfortable. Tips are available for most jobs in a hobby shop and the flame adjustment is very precise. Check out the Youtube videos on this torch. It is far more capable than you might think.

If you want a Mapp gas torch, look at the Bernzomatic TS8000. Very hot flame that will heat treat O-1 steel easily. It will do what I had to use two propane torches to do before.
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For Propane/Mapp usage I would also highly recommend TS8000.
I looked for that Meco Midget up here but no luck, other than Meco, I have heard so much about another torch called HENROB 2000, it is supposed to be light weight, throws a lot of heat and also saves gas, I think the basic model is around $300 USD ,I think it looks a bit too big and uncomfortable, this is a video on a few good torches, he mentions the Meco and likes it a lot.
 
I was considering switching to propane oxy, but the equipment cost seemed prohibitive. I've got a TIG and just bought a bunch of silicon bronze TIG welding rods. Gonna give that a try instead. Tired of getting acetylene refills.
 
I have tried TIG brazing with very poor results! I always seem to melt the base metal and the resultant braze is very weak. It may look OK but it fails under load. I will be curious to see your results. I would suggest gas torch for brazing and TIG for welding.
Robert
 
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