Tooling up for silver soldering

[dbb-the-bruce]

@dbb-the-bruce I can't speak for your suppliers in your area. That will be a research project for you if you need to change equipment.

Here are a few ideas to consider: the type of work you are doing is very well suited to a jewelry sized Oxy Acetylene outfit. There are other options, however...

Modern HHO outfits can be had from offshore for a moderate price and would work very well for the kind of SS or bronze brazing you need to do.

If you are looking to do metalworking long term, you might want to move toward TIG (bronze) brazing instead. Less finicky. fewer flow problems, but needs different and nontrivial skills to do. TIG is your most versatile but most expensive option.

The problem with MAP gas is your flame temperature is marginal to do a good job, and it isn't concentrated enough to do a long edge bit by bit. That's where HHO brazing comes in. You can do 1/2 inch of HHO brazing or OA brazing without having the SS flow out of your joint or getting burnt up - both are super common if your entire SS job is larger than your flame envelope.

I hope this helps.

What's an HHO?

I've used TIG (very little) for what I want to do it's probably to much / expensive.

Jewelry sized / hobby model sized. I can imagine (right now) anything much bigger than say a 4" cube. OA - would be nice to add to equipment, presumably on the small side. It would be nice to also be able to do bandsaw blades and braze other tooling.

 

[Dabbler]

that is a unit tah creates hydrogen gas and oxygen from distilled water and an electric current. If you go to sites such as banggood.com and search on hho, you can see pictures of the unit they sell. There are a few videos on youribe on using an HHO torch, which should be instructive.

The nice thing about HHO is that you get the control and intensity of a gas torch, without the problems of bottled gases.

 

[Ken from ontario]

I have used Phosphor-copper rods and/or super sil flo . both are in my opinion the closest in color to copper, can be used to braze Brass if you use flux, it is cheaper than sil fos-15 and works best with O/A torch.

Forney 48571 Super SIL Flo Brazing Rod, 1/8-Inch, 1/2-Pound : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

Forney 48571 Super SIL Flo Brazing Rod, 1/8-Inch, 1/2-Pound : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

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[dbb-the-bruce]

that is a unit tah creates hydrogen gas and oxygen from distilled water and an electric current. If you go to sites such as banggood.com and search on hho, you can see pictures of the unit they sell. There are a few videos on youribe on using an HHO torch, which should be instructive.

The nice thing about HHO is that you get the control and intensity of a gas torch, without the problems of bottled gases.

Interesting, did that in high school. I'll look into HHO.

(also made H2 when younger using zinc from battery cases and plumbers acid - made one hell of a bang, damn lucky I didn't seriously injure myself HA!)

 

[Ken from ontario]

If you want to use silver solder wire, Gesswein is probably the best for price and variety of silver solder wires, flux, paste and all, I used the" easy " silver wire and it really was easy to use,here's the link;

Silver Solder Wire

Canada's best source for Quality Tools, Equipment and Supplies for Jewellers and the Jewellery Industry. Over 17,000 products available from our 16,000 SF warehouse in Toronto. In-stock orders placed before 3:30pm shipped the same day. Can't find what you are looking for? Call our highly...

www.gessweincanada.com

Solder

Canada's best source for Quality Tools, Equipment and Supplies for Jewellers and the Jewellery Industry. Over 17,000 products available from our 16,000 SF warehouse in Toronto. In-stock orders placed before 3:30pm shipped the same day. Can't find what you are looking for? Call our highly...

www.gessweincanada.com

 

[Dave Smith]

Who is "they"?

Craig

almost any welding supply house, plumbing supply house, including HF sells small complete sets for a little over $300(Mississippi welders is one that sells a nice small Smith's set) I bought a used set with some oxy/actylene still in the tanks for $90. put a wanted ad in CL for a small set ---they can be found. b size tanks can be owned and exchanged for a full tank for the price of the actylene. I have a Smiths set plus a small purox set, and a large Harris set with the larger tanks. Dave

 

[pontiac428]

You can get used Victor oxy-acetylene setups for a song on craigslist or similar. I say Victor because of the ubiquity of parts and service. I like being able to buy regulator rebuild kits, o-rings, or a torch tip when I need to without stockpiling. I have two super-range setups that I keep, one for heating/brazing and one for cutting (though admittedly I cut with plasma most of the time). It's simple, you choose the tip sized for your work, and adjust the flame to control your heat. You can braze for years without running your tanks empty, it does not use that much- only a fraction of what is needed for cutting.

Someone mentioned silicon bronze welding. This is one that melts close to the base metal melt temp, but not quite (1700-2000 degrees). It is something I've only done with TIG. It is good for dissimilar metals, certain castings, or occasional oddball alloys that you don't have any other filler rod on hand for. Once you recognize it, you'll spot it a lot out in the world.

 

[whitmore]

the intent is to be able to assemble sheet brass into small boxes. working with 1/16" or 1/8" thickness. Boxes 4 - 6" dimensions at the most.

Brass has a low-ish melting point, and it may be tricky to get a silver solder that will
flow before the whole project slumps. Brass melts at 920 C, silver solders vary. Sil-phos is around 800C, and
works well (without flux) on pure copper (melting point of copper 1352 C); 'hard' silver solder might be 790 C melting (Silvaloy 750) which is uncomfortably
close, and 'easy' silver solders (Easy-Flo 635 C) contain cadmium, so there's some toxicity to worry about.

If temperatures are too close, a torch braze will be hard to manage; oven brazing, with solder preformed, could work.

 

[NortonDommi]

A joint brazed with brass is not as strong as a welded joint or a silver brazed joint.

I disagree. A strong joint is 100% dependent on design. Some of my motorcycles have Brazed slipjoints and they are the strong points in the frame. The beauty of a slipjoint is that if damage ever occurs to a frame tube member they can be unsweated and a tube replaced.
I am a big fan of Castolin,( https://www.castolin.com/),Eutectic rods. A bit pricey but worth every cent. Like most things quality shows in ease of use https://www.castolin.com/technologies?technology=brazing. My favorite is https://www.castolin.com/product/16 which I buy as bare rod for tube work. It can be used as a Brazing rod and after the joint has partially cooled you can overlay the joint as if Bronze welding for extra reinforcement - very versatile. Comes in rods,(coated and uncoated),wire,foils, rings, powder.
Many pneumatic and hydraulic fittings are also made up of Brazed parts. As in most things correct design for the job is paramount.
I think Oxy/Acet has a place in any shop as it is the single most versatile heating process there is.
100% agree on Victor being quality. I use their cutting tips and the difference between Victor and any other brand is extremely noticeable in use.

 

[ericc]

For brass boxes, I'd use soft solder. The lead free plumbing solder is cheap and fairly strong. It is not strong enough, nor is the flux active enough for brazed carbide lathe tools. For that, you need silver solder or brass. I do almost all of this tool work with a swirl flame propane torch. A couple of strategically placed firebricks help a lot. If I need more, I have a National torch, which uses oxy-propane. I rarely fire up my oxyacetylene torch, but there is no substitute for welding steel. Oh wait, there is. A TIG welder. Although this costs a little more, the increased capability is just amazing. Highly recommended. There is a huge bang for the buck for a small lift start TIG. Lots of places sell them. They need some practice, though.