This Southbend 9” lathe a good buy?

[DaveBarbier]

Dave, I presume you're aware of this article. It's a good one if you haven't read it already.

Thanks again Mikey, this is a great read with a heap of helpful tips. I feel pretty confident I won’t get had. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[mikey]

I have helped friends purchase 3 used lathes and I bought my Emco Super 11 used (under 100 hours on it) but I've also looked at a lot of lathes we rejected. Thought it might help to have more input than the article provided. I'm no expert but this might help.

• I check the ways first. If they are junk then bothering to look at anything else is a waste of time. Look for where the saddle and tailstock contact the ways; they contact at different sites. As Bob said, if you can see a step between the area where the saddle rides and where it doesn't ride, that is wear. I always take my Suburban Tools straightedge and lay it on the ways (cleaned) and shine a light from the back. If you can see light coming through then that is wear. You can quantify it with feeler gauges. To me, if the bed has more than a thou or two of wear then that is to be expected but I usually walk away. My feeling is that 0.002" now will only get worse and I would rather not pay for the privilege. If it has more than 0.005", run away, don't walk. That will require grinding and then grinding/scraping the headstock and tailstock to match. Too much cost, too much work.
• Then I check the spindle and spindle mount. I ask to turn the lathe on and I run it through all the gears to make sure there are no strange noises. I put my hand on the headstock after the lathe has run for about 10-15 minutes; if the headstock is really hot then that makes me worry about the bearings. With the lathe hot and the plug pulled out, I check for concentricity inside the spindle taper and also on the spindle register (the part that centers the chuck) with a tenths-reading DTI. My personal acceptable limit is 0.0002". If I get more run out than that, and especially if the headstock got really warm when running, this tells me that the spindle or bearings need work. If I get anything that approaches more than 0.001" TIR, I thank the seller and walk away. While you're checking the taper, make sure it isn't all scarred up and that any concentricity readings you get remain the same at two or three different spots in the taper.
• The rest is pretty much common sense - no missing teeth on the gears, the gears are all there, the right gears are installed, any change gears required come with the lathe. Ideally, you want a quick change gear box and if possible, get a double tumbler (two levers) gearbox. Everything should work, everything. If it doesn't then you will have to pay to fix it.
• You want a steady rest if the spindle bore is small. By small, I mean 3/4" or less. If you cannot pass work inside the spindle then the steady rest becomes really, really, really important. The follow rest, not so much. Grab as much tooling as you can pry off the seller, even if he or you are not sure it goes with that machine. Tooling is what costs later and a lot of the old tools are no longer available. I have seen guys withhold tooling they know belongs with the lathe and refuse to include it so they can sell it on ebay and make more money; this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. EDIT: you want a thread dial indicator ... you really want it.
• If you can see, look at the end of the bed from the rear. If it is packed with chips and there are chips all over the gears then the guy used compressed air when he used the lathe. You can therefore expect chips, and therefore more wear on the ways, under the saddle. No bueno.

That's all that I can think of right now.

To be really honest, Dave, I try to get my friends to buy new lathes and if they can handle it, a Taiwanese lathe. I now have enough experience helping to rebuild old lathes that I feel it just isn't worth the trouble, cost or the work-arounds. If you like restoring old machines and then living with the wear they already have, go for it. There are those rare gems out there, I'm sure, but I have yet to see one. I'll probably get flamed for this but romance or nostalgia does not contribute to accuracy. I would rather have an accurate machine, even if it is made in Europe or Taiwan, than buy a worn down piece of American Iron. And this goes double for new guys who know nothing about lathes and are just breaking into our hobby. Better to have a machine that works as it should so you can learn to use it.

Just an opinion and please understand that I am not trying to discourage you. I just wanted to give you another perspective and food for thought.

 

[RobertB]

In addition to the excellent info mikey just provided, consider your use and how long you plan on keeping it. A lot of people will point out that for 99% of hobby lathe work, even a lathe with worn ways will get the job done. And this is certainly true, but if you ever need to do something that requires precision over a distance, turning a morse taper for example, it will be difficult. And if you ever decide to upgrade, your resale market will be limited.

 

[DaveBarbier]

Thanks Mikey, nice write up. Really appreciate the knowledge and I totally understand what you’re saying about nostalgia. The old adage, “they don’t build them like they used to” could blind me from getting an old machine with too much wear. I’ll have to go into this with a clear head...I do love the look of an old piece of machinery though...

I don’t have a DTI so I can’t measure the headstock spindle (not sure if the Southbend 9” has threads or a taper) with anything other than my normal .001” Shars indicator on a Noga arm with mag base. But I’ll totally bring a small straight edge and feeler gauges for the ways, pocket flashlight and of course my phone to use the camera as a mirror to look up under the QCG.

Thanks! Headed there in a couple hours!

 

[dbb-the-bruce]

Lot of good comments on how to check out a use lathe here (I learned stuff)

Let me just say that I purchased the same SB 9 model vintage 10 years ago with a lot of kit to go with it for $1200. From your photos, mine looks like it was in better condition, but not by much.

I love my old iron, it's just the right size for what I do and I'd get one (in good condition) again in a heartbeat, $1200 on a brand new lathe wouldn't get me close.

Another plus for SB 9 is that they made a TON of them. Used parts and attachments are easy to find.

Give it a good look over, if there is nothing seriously wrong, $950 for lathe + extras is a pretty good price!

 

[DaveBarbier]

In addition to the excellent info mikey just provided, consider your use and how long you plan on keeping it. A lot of people will point out that for 99% of hobby lathe work, even a lathe with worn ways will get the job done. And this is certainly true, but if you ever need to do something that requires precision over a distance, turning a morse taper for example, it will be difficult. And if you ever decide to upgrade, your resale market will be limited.

It’s funny, last night I just happen to examine my current Craftsman 618 and see that there is visible wear on the ways. Can’t catch my fingernail on it but I can feel it with my finger. For what I do this hasn’t caused a problem...didn’t even notice it until last night. But again, I would like my next lathe to be an upgrade in more than just size but also in quality.

Thanks!

 

[DaveBarbier]

Lot of good comments on how to check out a use lathe here (I learned stuff)

Let me just say that I purchased the same SB 9 model vintage 10 years ago with a lot of kit to go with it for $1200. From your photos, mine looks like it was in better condition, but not by much.

I love my old iron, it's just the right size for what I do and I'd get one (in good condition) again in a heartbeat, $1200 on a brand new lathe wouldn't get me close.

Another plus for SB 9 is that they made a TON of them. Used parts and attachments are easy to find.

Give it a good look over, if there is nothing seriously wrong, $950 for lathe + extras is a pretty good price!

Glad you guys agree the price is decent. And good point that SB made so many of these things so parts are more readily available. Plus because they’re so popular there are thousands of YouTube videos on them for repair and troubleshooting.

Thanks!

 

[GK1918]

I wouldn't worry one bit. If there is no wear on the bed its either new or never been used. The lathe is
bought to use, and yes all have wear near the chuck. I am lucky to have two long bed 4ft 9A's. One
dedicated just for threading so of course there will be a little bed wear near the chuck so what. My
other one is used for general turning. So don't confuse bed wear with a worn out 3 jaw, none are
dead on, good 4 jaw is the answer. Collet closer you have, buy a whole set 3MT collets for 70 bucks new.
Its like buying a new set of tires that will wear out for that price, but my two built in 1942 still on the
job. Steady rest yes, follow rest I never used it . I been preaching on this board for years that it seems
everybody gets their heads all stoked up on math and rocket machining. We have a job shop my son
handles that I am in the rear machine shop. Ya never know what walks through the door, manly most
I have no clue except what the customer wants. Yes I'm rambling, but keep in mind, its all in the set
up. We are like a Vet doctor who are why smarter than people Drs. we have to figure all the how too's
our busted clients don;t talk,. bottom line us old guys knew about wear backlash and we compensated
like a 10 dollar first car and you had to pump the brakes but thats what you did. Tip from the old man.
sam

 

[dbb-the-bruce]

If there is no wear on the bed its either new or never been used. The lathe is
bought to use, and yes all have wear near the chuck.

I was going to make a similar comment but deferred to other people idea of a "good lathe"- If the frosting on the bed is worn away near the spindle, no big deal. If the ways are beat to carp and all chewed up walk away. It's a used lathe, it should look like one. If the spindle is sloppy and crunchy, pass. If it's got a little run out (you define little) who cares. If you really, really, really need as much precision as possible, you'll need to learn how to deal with machine issues.

If it's your first lathe and it runs soothly - it will be fine - once you learn enough you might improve it or look for your next one!

Let us all know how it turns out, and post more pictures!

-Dave B

 

[martik777]

About 10 years ago, I bought a 9A with much worse wear on the ways and a stripped backgear and 7 teeth missing on the bull gear. I learned a lot repairing those gears and have successfully made 1000's of parts since.