Surface Grinder Inspection for Purchase

[Gaffer]

This is a follow-up on my last thread https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/pitfalls-to-these-lyon-cabinets-for-sale.97371/ in hopes of input on what to look for when purchasing a used surface grinder. I haven't owned or operated one before so. I'm not in a rush, and only yesterday figured out how I can rearrange my space to fit one. These are the two machines the guy had where I bought my Lyon tool cabinets. They are in storage with no electricity, so I cannot see them run. This morning I found his listings on eBay. The Do-All is 3 phase and would require a VFD / phase converter. I don't mind having to go through them, but not unless the price is right. Let me know what you think. Yesterday he told me he was the Delta run, but not the Do-All. He's not a machinist or mechanic, just a guy who buys out estates and defunct businesses. I appreciate your input.

DELTA-MILWAUKEE TOOLMAKER SURFACE GRINDER, W/ BROWN & SHARPE PERMANENT MAGNETIC | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for DELTA-MILWAUKEE TOOLMAKER SURFACE GRINDER, W/ BROWN & SHARPE PERMANENT MAGNETIC at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

DO-ALL 6'' X 18'' MANUAL SURFACE GRINDER W/ MAG CHUCK MODEL 6-61811 | eBay

WORKS GREAT. I’M IN THIS FOR THE LONG HAUL.

www.ebay.com

 

[Ed ke6bnl]

I have a Rockwell that look just like the delta one, I paid $100 not as nice as that one. Not a very professional grinder, great for under $300 my thinking

 

[Alexander McGilton]

What kind of effort do you intend on investing in the sense of re-building, and what are your expectations for usage and quality of work? If you were going to be mounting a belt grinder and polishing knives, then the Delta would be best. It's nearly there with minimal conversion effort.

If you want a real tool and die machine and grinding precision parts. Then the Do-all is best after doing some work on it. The delta has that rust on the round column that makes me think that it near its end of life. Yes you could replace the column and rebore, hone/lap the sleeve around it to regain factory fit. Though that is a lot of effort for a cheap grinder, better placed on the do-all. I presume that the Do-all has a lubrication pump, so even if neglected from regular maintenance, it should for the most part be free from rust on the critical parts.

Hand scraping is a major effort to learn and apply if you dont already have the skills. The Do-all may have replaceable rails on the primary axis for the ball guide. Find a grind shop that has a large enough surface grinder then then can restore flatness to the rails at a reasonable price compared to the effort of rescraping any grinder that size.

 

[C-Bag]

You are in the right area and have the right attitude IMHO. Don’t get in a rush and you can get a really good machine. Even though I’m a cheapo I’d not go the Rockwell if surface grinding is your thing. Not ridged enough. It was originally called a tool grinder which I could see, surface grinder, not so much.

I did a ton of research here on old threads on surface grinders and it was an incredible resource. Got real close on two grinders and decided to wait. And I’m glad I did. I came to the conclusion something like a B&S MicroMaster is about the only thing that would really do it for me because of the automatic feed, super ridged and bulletproof design. Some other SG’s have the auto feed too.

 

[pdentrem]

For any SG, the spindle bearings and table ways are the critical items. Bad bearings even when warmed up after an hour is no good. Chatter! The ways have to be flat otherwise the grinder will yield a curved surface. If the equipment comes out of a grind shop, they are likely worn tons. If they come out of place that doesn’t grind as much then you have a chance of a better machine.
Pierre

 

[Gaffer]

Thanks, everyone. I'll likely pass on these but I'll ask the vendor what kind of a shop they came from. Maybe I'll get lucky.

 

[woodchucker]

What kind of effort do you intend on investing in the sense of re-building, and what are your expectations for usage and quality of work? If you were going to be mounting a belt grinder and polishing knives, then the Delta would be best. It's nearly there with minimal conversion effort.

If you want a real tool and die machine and grinding precision parts. Then the Do-all is best after doing some work on it. The delta has that rust on the round column that makes me think that it near its end of life. Yes you could replace the column and rebore, hone/lap the sleeve around it to regain factory fit. Though that is a lot of effort for a cheap grinder, better placed on the do-all. I presume that the Do-all has a lubrication pump, so even if neglected from regular maintenance, it should for the most part be free from rust on the critical parts.

Hand scraping is a major effort to learn and apply if you dont already have the skills. The Do-all may have replaceable rails on the primary axis for the ball guide. Find a grind shop that has a large enough surface grinder then then can restore flatness to the rails at a reasonable price compared to the effort of rescraping any grinder that size.

I totally disagree with this about the column. THAT WILL CLEAN UP WITH VERY LITTLE EFFORT. Mine was similar when I got it.
The most important part of that grinder is the ways under the bed. Mine were worn. I don't like the oiling that they have. I had to mill mine to get it closer.. I could not get it perfect. The spindle is a tapered bronze bearing. You tighten the spindle to remove any play.. and if they kept it oiled it's going to be fine.

Here's my rebuild

https://imgur.com/a/V7NnR4q

I will say, that this is NOT a tool grinder on it's own. Quite the opposite. Without many of the add ons it's doesn't do the job. You need the universal tool holder, the centers, the swing bed. And if you plan on doing end mills, an endmill holder with finger and ability to slide in and out.
That's what would make it a tool grinder. Really a deckel clone D Bit grinder would be a much better tool grinder IMHO.

I like that chuck, it has the switch where it would be easier to activate.

The grinder has no ability to catch fluid... I have to tell you grinding dry SUCKS. I grind with fluid. I made my own tray, and it's not working out. I am now misting , that's doing better. But there is no place to catch it. Which is a big draw back.

You can't swing the head over as I first thought you could. I thought I could put it 90 to where it was for tool grinding. You can't it's too far back and the table won't go that far back. I recently used my spindexer to grind a round tool. I ran out of room because of my er32 adapter, but even w/out the adapter I would have run out of room, it would have been closer..

That's my opinion..

https://imgur.com/a/fyL4frB

 

[C-Bag]

I will say, that this is NOT a tool grinder on it's own. Quite the opposite. Without many of the add ons it's doesn't do the job. You need the universal tool holder, the centers, the swing bed. And if you plan on doing end mills, an endmill holder with finger and ability to slide in and out.

This is true of all tool grinders I see. 90% of the tool grinders on CL and eBay for less than a couple of k have none of the necessary tooling. I am just going by the stuff I’ve read about them and one in particular where a guy was wondering how you got the pattern out of the grind. Several of the reply’s were “nature of the beast”. I would think that would not be such a problem for tool grinding. But as you can tell this is all conjecture on my part.

I don’t mean to cast dispersions on your grinder.

 

[woodchucker]

I got the pattern out of my grind by changing wheels, balancing, and truing up b4 my final passes, AND fluid.

 

[Alexander McGilton]

I totally disagree with this about the column. THAT WILL CLEAN UP WITH VERY LITTLE EFFORT. Mine was similar when I got it.
The most important part of that grinder is the ways under the bed. Mine were worn. I don't like the oiling that they have. I had to mill mine to get it closer.. I could not get it perfect. The spindle is a tapered bronze bearing. You tighten the spindle to remove any play.. and if they kept it oiled it's going to be fine.

My floor standing drill press had a rusty column, and the prior user just ran the table up and down without notice or concern. Even if you could perfectly restore the column away from rust, there is still the manner that the column grip area is now lemon shaped, as the two half circle have accommodated by abrasion a different diameter. Tighten the bolts all you wish and still the table wiggles.

Those higher end surface grinder with a dovetail or better a box constriction column, concealed in sliding sheet metal protectors and an oil drip feed are head and heels above an exposed round column machine. New vs new back in the day, the price point was a strong argument to get a round column machine. Now that the used market has these machines near par price wise, it would be an easy decision for me to go for the Do-all and tune it up for precision grinding.