Suggest index toolholder set please

[AllenV]

Hi all,
I am interested in trying carbide inserts as lathe turning bits. Can you suggest a set of index tool holders that is of good quality yet cost conscious? While we are discussing it, what sort of inserts for mild steel and somewhat hard steel, aluminum. Nothing exotic.

My lathe is an Enco 13x40, model 510-2585 with a phase II BXA style quick change post.

Thank you,
Allen

 

[MrWhoopee]

I've purchased a lot of tooling of this type. It's all been of good quality with hardened shanks.

Lathe Carbide Inserts Tool & Holder Wrench Mini Lathe Set Turning Tooling H8K2 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Lathe Carbide Inserts Tool & Holder Wrench Mini Lathe Set Turning Tooling H8K2 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

or this

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804994948387.html

I would suggest 12 or 16mm shanks for your lathe.
Lots of different packages, do a little searching before you pick one.
Remember to buy a pack of each style insert.

 

[GeneT45]

I suggest that you start with a right-hand turning tool from a brand name (with inserts to match). I like Trigons (the shape), but there are certainly other options. A trigon with a 5* leading angle will face, turn, and cut a square shoulder, so I think it's a good start. Find one with a shank size that will fit your lathe and then pick an insert - unless you're turning exclusively aluminum, I'd pick an insert for steel. Get 2-4 inserts (they'll be $20+ each...).

That creates a baseline. After that, if you want to experiment with less expensive tools and inserts at least you'll know what you can expect from a 'good' tool. In my experience, excellent tools are not sold in sets.

GsT

 

[AllenV]

I'm learning things here. Once I had the keyword "trigon" to search with I found two information packed pages at McMaster Carr

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[AllenV]

What is a good general purpose tip radius? I imagine this is a trade-off between tool pressure and insert longevity. Choices seem to be 1/64 and 1/32 inch

 

[G-ManBart]

For that machine I would start out with something positive rake first.

CCMT inserts in an SCLC tool holder are a good choice for general purpose turning. I've used them on everything from a South Bend Heavy 10 up to my 14" Logan and gotten very good results. It's my baseline....if I can't get a good finish with that setup, something is off.

You don't need to go crazy....a Shars holder with inexpensive inserts will work nicely for normal materials. For BXA I'd say there's no need to go smaller than a 5/8" tool. This is what I have on my 13" Sheldon and 14" Logan.

5/8 X 4" RH SCLC R/L INDEXABLE TURNING TOOL HOLDER CCMT !] | eBay

CCGT, CCMT Insert: 32.5. Negative 5 degree end or side cutting edge angle for positive 80 degree diamond CCMT insert. CCMT 32.51 HM YBC251 w/ Finishing chip breaker (PART #424-1028 ). Coating: CVD Tin Al2O3 TICN.

www.ebay.com

CCMT 32.51 and 32.52 inserts for that holder will cover most things. For aluminum 31.51 uncoated will work nicely. I've bought name brand inserts on down to the inexpensive ones direct from China in packs of 50 and for hobby use I just don't think it matters much unless you're working with difficult material or trying to maximize insert life. I tried some of the really cheap ones, found they worked well and then stocked up...at $1-2 an insert I don't worry if they don't last forever.

The SCLC tool won't get in really tight places so you might consider an SJDC (also positive rake) tool like this that uses DCMT inserts:

5/8 x 4-1/2" RH SDJC Screw Lock Positive Insert Indexable Tool Holder DCMT P] | eBay

Model# SDJC R-10-3B. Insert Style： DCMT. Negative 3 degree side cutting edge angle for positive 55 degree diamond DCMT, DCGXinsert. Easy reference guide for insert number, screw, and other accessories is printed on the tool shank.

www.ebay.com

 

[G-ManBart]

What is a good general purpose tip radius? I imagine this is a trade-off between tool pressure and insert longevity. Choices seem to be 1/64 and 1/32 inch

You'll want both. I'd guess most people use 1/32 the most, but that's just a guess. 1/64 is nice for lighter cuts. For aluminum, and really fine cuts on steel you can find 1/128. For example CCMT 31.50 is a 1/128 radius.

 

[Ischgl99]

I’ve bought several tool holders and inserts from www.latheinserts.com, they are higher quality Chinese and a very good value. I have a variety of insert styles, but I have been using the CCMT style more often. I have some DCMT for when I need better clearance. They have a kit on the website, but I would recommend buying what you need as you need it since with a kit you usually end up with something you never use. As already suggested, starting with something like an SCLR tool holder would be a good start.

 

[AllenV]

What a huge warren of options the is. Thank you all for your well considered responses. I'll admit that I took limited action prior to reading the last 3 posts. Here what I have done.

Settled on the trigon style insert and purchased one holder and a few inserts. A couple of different sites with detailed technical/comparative info indicate that the trigon is a good general purpose shape. I limited myself to 1/2 inch shanks as I was not certain that the 5/8 would squeeze into my BXA quick-change. @G-ManBart suggest that 5/8 will fit. Going to 5/8 would increase the diversity of mounting types. All the 1/2-inch stuff seems to be "S" or single screw mounts. Perhaps my next holder will be a 5/8".
So the holder I bought is SWLCR, standard facing from Mitsubishi with 1/2" shank
The carbide inserts are WNMG

So that gets one toe wet.

Links:

SWLCR082

www.carbidedepot.com

 

[AllenV]

For that machine I would start out with something positive rake first.

CCMT inserts in an SCLC tool holder are a good choice for general purpose turning. I've used them on everything from a South Bend Heavy 10 up to my 14" Logan and gotten very good results. It's my baseline....if I can't get a good finish with that setup, something is off.

@G-ManBart, I’d like to indulge your patience and explore a nuanced selection of cutting tools that I don’t understand well. This is drawing on your comment: “For that machine I would start out with something positive rake first.”

Quick recap, the lathe is an Enco 13x40 with Phase II BXA quick change. Additional info is that it is 1.5 HP, single phase and weighs in at a claimed ~1100 pounds w/o stand.

I am imagining a continuum of lathe properties where some range of these machines can be binned as “start with positive rake” and others as “use zero or negative rake”. In that continuum, which properties are of key importance? Is it HP and weight? And, of course, where does my machine sit in that space?

Next, and again in the context of my machine. Up to this time I have been using hand ground HSS. I have not found rake specified for inserts in the manner it is defined for ground HSS . Rake must be built into the chip breaker in some fashion? Can you educate me here? I see clearance or relief angle on the insert and that you suggest “C” which is a 7deg relief. The inserts I bought are “N”, or 0deg relief. I have never used 0deg relief before, is this an error with my machine?

Here are links I have used in this note:

Insert Shape Selection

Carbide Insert Shape Selection

www.carbidedepot.com

Insert Designation Chart - provides ANSI and ISO designation code definitions for carbide insert shapes, relief angles, tolerances, chipbreaker codes, hole types, size values, thickness values, radius values, wiper lead angle, wiper clearance angle,

Carbide Insert Designation Chart

www.carbidedepot.com

Toolholder ANSI Designation Chart - provides ANSI and ISO designation code definitions for lathe toolholders for the insert holding type, insert shape, toolholder style, insert relief angle, direction, shank size, insert inscribed circle (IC), and

Toolholder ANSI Designation Chart

www.carbidedepot.com