So who thinks they will be driving electric in 10 years?

[davidcarmichael]

Yes tax is tax and there is no way to know where the money is actually going once collected. BUT this is still a tax that ONLY electric and hybrid vehicles have to pay so it is a valid cost of electric that must be factored into any cost of ownership/operation comparison. The gas tax is built into the price of gasoline that electric and hybrid are not paying yet it is still being calculated into the cost of operating an ICE vehicle. Fair is fair

So why not a mileage, vehicle axle weight, and pollution tax?
Maybe politicians owe some favors to the hydrocarbon business.

 

[Flyinfool]

So why not a mileage, vehicle axle weight, and pollution tax?
Maybe politicians owe some favors to the hydrocarbon business.

Actually that is exactly what the gas tax is, the more mileage you put on the more gas you burn, The heavier your vehicle the more gas you burn, the more polution you make the more gas you burn, the more gas you burn the more tax you pay. BUt electric was still free of helping to pay for the roads they use, until now.

 

[cjtoombs]

One could solve the fuel vs electric with a tire tax instead of a fuel tax. The upside is that it covers nearly all the bases of a fuel tax (mileage, vehicle size/weight). The downside is that you would be paying a awful lot of tax all at once, which could raise the cost per tire by $100. It would basically be the same money as the fuel tax, but people are much more sensitive to a big bill every once in a while than a small one much more often. Of course, we could take the philosophy that everyone benefits from roads, and just pay for them with general tax revenue, as opposed to a use tax, at which point it wouldn't make any difference if your car was electric or burned wood. Lots of ways to skin the cat, it's just the current way is being broken by electrics (and high fuel mileage vehicles in general).

 

[davidcarmichael]

One could solve the fuel vs electric with a tire tax instead of a fuel tax. The upside is that it covers nearly all the bases of a fuel tax (mileage, vehicle size/weight). The downside is that you would be paying a awful lot of tax all at once, which could raise the cost per tire by $100. It would basically be the same money as the fuel tax, but people are much more sensitive to a big bill every once in a while than a small one much more often. Of course, we could take the philosophy that everyone benefits from roads, and just pay for them with general tax revenue, as opposed to a use tax, at which point it wouldn't make any difference if your car was electric or burned wood. Lots of ways to skin the cat, it's just the current way is being broken by electrics (and high fuel mileage vehicles in general).

I agree. The paltry tax placed on gas doesn't come close to paying for the roads so let's just increase taxes progressively and only increase taxes on fuels based on carbon and particulate emissions (this includes tires and auto manufacture). Harm to the environment is what we need to discourage. It would be interesting to see how the price of gas would vary depending upon the VIN you scanned in.

 

[JPigg55]

I agree. The paltry tax placed on gas doesn't come close to paying for the roads so let's just increase taxes progressively and only increase taxes on fuels based on carbon and particulate emissions (this includes tires and auto manufacture). Harm to the environment is what we need to discourage. It would be interesting to see how the price of gas would vary depending upon the VIN you scanned in.

Be careful what you ask for.
Food is a carbon based fuel for your body and the body releases particulate emissions.
As for the paltry tax, I did a quick, conservative estimation.
I calculated 130 million drivers at 10 gallons per week with 30 cents/gallon tax for 52 weeks a year = a little under $20.3 trillion per year.
If you figure $1,000,000 per mile to put in a road, that's enough tax dollars to build 20,280 miles of new road every year.
Roughly 3,000 miles from LA to NY, that would build 6.75 new highways between the two every year. Even if you increase the cost to $3,000,000 per mile, you almost 2.5 cross country highways a year.
Can't speak to other places, but I have roads in my area that haven't hardly been touched in 10 years or more.
Makes one wonder where all the money goes ?

 

[Superburban]

Makes one wonder where all the money goes ?

Like most taxes, it goes into the general fund. Then dived out how those in charge please.Several years ago, the voters here voted in a new tax to get more pay, and fix the buildings, and it all has to go to the schools. To everyone's surprise (Not), the county just reduced the amount of funding that comes from them.

Actually that is exactly what the gas tax is, the more mileage you put on the more gas you burn, The heavier your vehicle the more gas you burn, the more polution you make the more gas you burn, the more gas you burn the more tax you pay. BUt electric was still free of helping to pay for the roads they use, until now.

Too bad it does not work that way.

These big RV's built off a bus chassis, and the big tour buses are allowed a higher weight on each wheel, making them the worst destroyers of the roads. Up to 65,000 lbs, on 8 to 10 wheels. They get 8 to 10 MPGs.

Tractor trailers get 6 to 12 MPGs, and can range up to 80,000 lbs, on 18 wheels. (staying away from the many special circumstances, and over weight permit loads).

My Chrysler Pacifica, weighs 4330 lbs, and can be loaded up to 6055 lbs, and gets 28MPG's.

my 77 Pickup, weighs about 4800 Lbs, and can go up to 6100lbs, while struggling to make 8 to 10 MPG's.

My sisters 2018 F150, weighs 4590 Lbs, and can load up to 6360Lbs, and is averaging 27 MPG's.

While it is the best, and simplest way to attempt to assign cost to what causes the most wear, it is far from perfect.

 

[JPigg55]

Like most taxes, it goes into the general fund. Then dived out how those in charge please. Several years ago, the voters here voted in a new tax to get more pay, and fix the buildings, and it all has to go to the schools. To everyone's surprise (Not), the county just reduced the amount of funding that comes from them.

I know what you mean. Here in Illinois (one of, if not the worst State for this) they only fund about 25% of the school budget from property tax dollars which is what most of the tax was/is intended.
Even after they created the Illinois Lottery, which passed public approval because all the money was supposed to go towards funding the schools. Well, it turns out the money DOES go to the school system. Problem is that all the property tax money that was supposed to go to the schools gets re-directed to the General Fund on a dollar for dollar basis.
End result was schools didn't get a dime more and the scumbag politicians had $$$Millions", if not $$$Billions" of tax payer dollars to spend on things it wasn't intended for.

If I were "King for a Day", every one of those SOB's would spend the rest of their lives making big rocks into small rocks.

 

[Flyinfool]

My point of bringing up taxes was not for the discussion of what the corruption and trickery of government, It was just to point out that when compairing the costs of electric vs fuel powerd cars you need to also include all of the costs including taxes that are suposedly earmarked for each, they are legitimate expenses that each type of vehicle is incuring and are part of the cost. What the govt does with that money or even IF the tax is fair is irrelevent to the discussion or the calculations, it is there so must be figured in.

 

[JPigg55]

My bad, got way off subject.

This is where the problem lies. Petroleum based fuels are easy to track and tax since the fuel pump at the gas station is pretty much the only place to get it. For the most part, its only uses is for ICE's. Consider you're even paying a road usage tax to mow your lawn if you use a gas powered mower. Not that much for most people so they don't complain, but look around your house at all the things that use electricity.
Electricity has a multitude of uses other than charging electric vehicles. How would they feasibly track the electricity used to charge your vehicles vs that used to pop popcorn and watch a movie on TV ?

The only feasible way I can think of is to put a tax on all electricity use (that wouldn't stomp all over the peoples God given, Constitutionally guaranteed rights). It's either that or a mileage tax that would require a way to track it. Imagine having to go to the DMV every month to let them check the mileage on all your vehicles, although I'd suspect they'd just make you pay a flat tax and then require you to go through a verification process to get any refund or pay additional tax if short (probably with fines and penalties if it's too much like with income tax).

You also have to consider the politicians point of view. Do you think they'd enact a tax that would be levied on millions of registered voters in major cities that don't even own a car and solely use public transportation ? They could, but I think it would be political suicide for them to do so.
And then you need to consider big business that fund them. Many of them would end up shelling out millions of dollars in taxes for power that wasn't used on highways. Given, they'd just pass the cost on to consumers, like they do with all taxes, but it may cost them a competitive edge over the competition as well.

 

[Superburban]

It's either that or a mileage tax that would require a way to track it. Imagine having to go to the DMV every month to let them check the mileage on all your vehicles,

We have the technology. Big trucks have to pay tax to every state they drive in, based on the miles driven in that state (yes, they get credit for fuel taxes paid to other states, the old system, they had to buy fuel in each state). Most trucking companies have a satellite system that tracks all the miles, and routes driven. The alternative was that drivers had to write down their odometer at each state line, or somehow keep track of all the miles driven in each state. Several western states have been discussing mileage based taxes for 10 years or more.