Slight taper turning between centers

brandon428

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member
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Nov 15, 2020
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I don't have any taper when I turn from the headstock of my 9A in a chuck/collet (what I generally do). Today, I went to turn a 12" long round bar between centers and am getting a slight taper of about .022 over 6-1/2" (on the tailstock end). Diameter is thicker on the headstock side. I have an edge alignment test bar, double checked my tailstock is aligned, and when I run a dial indicator along the test bar, it's consistent within a few thousands over the entire length of the bar. I have about .004" of runout on the tailstock side with my live center.

I don't think it's being caused by tailstock runout, and given the consistent measurements across the test bar, I don't think it's bed wear. Ideas on what else to check? My gib screws and carriage bolt screws/lock are backed out just shy of causing drag. I have ~0.025" backlash in my cross feed, but everything else feels tight.

I'm not aware of any way to lock the cross feed or compound rest...
 
the tailstock may be offset
try to adjust the TS offset with a dial indicator .010" and retest
you will be sending the TS away from you while adjusting
 
That's a lot of taper. You will probably find that your problem is indeed the tailstock offset.
 
The edge is meant to test 2 points, using centers. the head end, and the ts end. you put the indicator at both and they should read the same... right? Your indicator is mounted in holder somehow....

if you are reading the same, it should be no taper.... should be.

Like Mike says adjust the ts away from you by half the amount...

Does edge say the middle of the test bar is usable?
 
The edge is meant to test 2 points, using centers. the head end, and the ts end. you put the indicator at both and they should read the same... right? Your indicator is mounted in holder somehow....

if you are reading the same, it should be no taper.... should be.

Like Mike says adjust the ts away from you by half the amount...

Does edge say the middle of the test bar is usable?

I normally only test the ends. I center the head test point at 0, pull back the dial, slide the carriage to the tail, and the test point on the dial shows 0, which is what I call centered. If instead of pulling back the dial I remove the bar, slide the carriage, and put the bar back, I can be a few thousands off, but I believe that's due to the runout.

The reason I ran it across the test bar was a one off to see if bed wear could have been causing the taper. My thoughts was that if the dial stayed around 0, it tells me that when there's no pressure on the bit (cutting), there's no inherent taper.
 
Mike, I tried moving the tailstock 0.010" away from me, and the 1st 5" is tapered smaller diameter on the tailstock as before, but the last 1-2" is now tapered the opposite way (smaller diameter on the headstock side). Something really funky is going on here.
 
How tight are you on center? Properly greased? As the shaft is cut the forces can move things around a fair bit. The shaft will also change length as it heats from the cutting forces.
Are the center holes correct so the points are not touching the bottoms of the center holes? If they touch the bottoms, the shaft will float.
Is your tool below center line? Thinking that the tool is grabbing the shaft and pulling it towards the you and thus cutting deeper in the center area vs the two ends that are properly supported.
Pierre
 
Mike, I tried moving the tailstock 0.010" away from me, and the 1st 5" is tapered smaller diameter on the tailstock as before, but the last 1-2" is now tapered the opposite way (smaller diameter on the headstock side). Something really funky is going on here.
i would concur , something is funny
do you have access to a dead center?
 
you can easily make a dead center in the headstock, the tailstock needs one to rule out alignment issues
your spindle bearings may be loose
to check, mount a dial indicator on top of the spindle- insert a suitable rod larger than 5/8" and about 20" long into the spindle
give a pull up and give a push down- observe the dial indicator readings and record
 
I don't have any taper when I turn from the headstock of my 9A in a chuck/collet (what I generally do). Today, I went to turn a 12" long round bar between centers and am getting a slight taper of about .022 over 6-1/2" (on the tailstock end). Diameter is thicker on the headstock side. I have an edge alignment test bar, double checked my tailstock is aligned, and when I run a dial indicator along the test bar, it's consistent within a few thousands over the entire length of the bar. I have about .004" of runout on the tailstock side with my live center.

I don't think it's being caused by tailstock runout, and given the consistent measurements across the test bar, I don't think it's bed wear. Ideas on what else to check? My gib screws and carriage bolt screws/lock are backed out just shy of causing drag. I have ~0.025" backlash in my cross feed, but everything else feels tight.

I'm not aware of any way to lock the cross feed or compound rest...
As much as 0.004", (in my world more than 0.1mm) before you even start, is too much. A good live centre, in a tailstock that is locked gives a fixed point that cannot contribute to taper if it is lined up to the spindle centre. The uncompromising hardball way is use dead centres, and be sure they fit the centre spot holes in the test bar without bottoming on their points.

Next is the headstock. Discover if it has runout. Even if it has some, the error effect it makes is more about cyclic surface finish than taper. A whole 0.022" is because the tail centre is about 0.010" nearer to the tool. Absolutely do as @Ulma Doctor suggests. Get to know everything about the spindle play.

Turn between dead centres to discover the tail alignment. Sure - folks like to run a dial indicator along the shaft while moving the carriage, but the definitive way is to very carefully use a test bar you make cuts on, and directly measure them. The final cut should be very light, low force kind. Make it up yourself for a test area near the headstock, and another at the tail end, with the space between relieved just deep enough so you can move from the cut at one end to continue the cut at the other end without moving the cross slide out at all. If you can't lock it, then just don't touch it. Leave it at the setting where the tool was cutting with backlash taken up.

Finally, measure the test diameters with a micrometer! If the taper is still there, adjust the tailstock Y-axis screws.

There can be messed up taper effects if the tail point is not on the correct centre height. Check with the indicator it stays on the line, right up to the tail. At this stage, if there still is a problem, you will have gamed it to the point where your own senses will be giving you clues to the cause.

You want to know the whole deal, like if maybe if your the whole carriage is moving out of a worn area as it approaches the tail, or if there is a bed twist that needs leveling out. I don't say this is what is happening, but I do think you can zero in on the cause.
 
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