Newbie here continues to review offerings online. Shop Fox has a "gunsmith" 12x36 and a 13 x 40 on sale with free shipping. Anything special or just rebadged? Ads say 2 year warranty, but I don't see who you contact in case. Thanks for comments.
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Shop Fox-Just another China brand or?
- Thread starter visenfile
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Yup just another label on tools from China. The M1112 12x36 is basically the same as the Grizzly G4003G. You may find some minor differences and I'm not sure if either has an advantage are far as fit and finish.
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Shop Fox is one of Shiraz Balolia's brands. Shiraz is the owner of Grizzly.
He has the Grizzly line-up, the South Bend line up and the Shop Fox line up.
The Shop Fox line is marketed through his Wholesale distribution branch to dealers, where-as the Grizzly line up is sold through his stores.
The basic difference between Shop Fox and Grizzly is similar to the difference between a Dodge and a Plymouth, paint and trim.
Walter
He has the Grizzly line-up, the South Bend line up and the Shop Fox line up.
The Shop Fox line is marketed through his Wholesale distribution branch to dealers, where-as the Grizzly line up is sold through his stores.
The basic difference between Shop Fox and Grizzly is similar to the difference between a Dodge and a Plymouth, paint and trim.
Walter
Thanks. It kind of looked that way. So it does seem like what I read somewhere. The Chinese lathes come into the US with a little envelope full of suggested brand names and the distributor picks one he likes. Just like the wild west. The forum seems sensitive to asian brands other than ones they choose to feature. I wish if this is so to state it . But for buyers it would be nice to hear about warranty, support and parts availability from the "other" distributors who are mostly selling the same lathes with different logos. Thoughts?
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There is no favoritism among brands and there are no featured brands on The Hobby-Machinist. The Hobby-Machinist is an educational forum, not a sales tool. The content of this forum is generated by the membership. Many members have strong opinions on brands and are encouraged to state facts regarding machines and vendors that they have had experience with, both good and bad. Personal opinions may also be expressed, but they should be stated as such.
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Actually it's not like that. Generally distributors use their own brand names & go to the CM to see what options they have to offer. The distributor contracts the CM to produce the machines to their needs (name tag, features, colors, quality/price).
Just curious, what makes you think this? From the time I have been here I have never felt this forum to be this way. There are actually vendors/brands that are disliked that have their own sections here. It's impossible to accommodate all the current brands out there & the ones to come. The most popular ones (by forum discussions) eventually get a section. Look at how many brand specific sections we have here, we have more than any other machining forum. Not necessarily always a good thing but it certainly shows there no discrimination against brands here.
Shopfox currently isn't discussed much here and if the time comes when Shopfox should get a section, I have no douibt it would just be combined with the Grizzly section. That does not mean the Shopfox brand is not welcome here, everything is welcome, Asian or not.
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Do you know anything about Busy Bee/Craftex? I hear that the co is not necessarily related to the Grizzly co but the owner is somehow related to Shiraz? No idea on the truth in that, just curious is all.
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Walter is correct. About 8 years ago I was in the market for some woodworking machines. As is usual when I am looking for tools there was not a lot available used locally. I compared all the new machines as to price vs. quality. What I ended up buying were some Shop Fox machines. There is a local dealer and they bring in the machines, uncrate and assemble. They have a tech who goes over the machines and adjusts them and they are ready to plug and play. At the time the Shop Fox machines were slightly more expensive but because I bought several my cost was the same as if I had bought them from Grizzly and I saved shipping costs and assembly hassles. I have had no real problems with them and they have served me well. The local dealer is a woodworking store and they have no knowledge of metal working equipment. If I were in the market for a lathe or mill I would look in other directions though but that is just me and my needs and wants are different than many hobbyists starting out.
Regards
Darrell
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http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/31507-Busy-Bee-Tools-Canada
See here where I discussed the relationship that Shiraz has to BB!
Shiraz started BB in Canada but left due to a dispute over Quality Control issues with one of his brothers. His other brother left around 1990 and started his own company in Burnaby, BC, then opened a location in Mississauga, but closed down due to health problems.
Walter
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visenfile
I have never seen any sensitivity on this forum to Asian brands. There are forums on the internet that you can get banned for mentioning Atlas / Craftsman or Asian lathes, but not this one.
When I was importing machinery, we would go to Taiwan, (that was before China was a player, but they are the same way) and you would ask them how much for a particular tool, such as a drill press. They would reply that you could get them for $100.00 USD each if you bought 50 pieces. As a purchaser if you said to them, well, I want to only spend $90.00 USD each, they would say OK, and build them for you at that price, but guaranteed, they would cut corners to get to that price and the final product showed it. If on the other hand you offer them $110.00 USD each, then you would get a tool that had much better fit and finish, and overall would be a much better quality.
We would go into a factory and they would price based on the casting that you used. You could get the same drill press casting for fifty cents a pound, $1.00 a pound, $2.50 a pound and up to $5.00 a pound. The fifty cent castings were 90 % bondo, where as the $5.00 castings were as good or better than US made castings.
Yes there are companies that import machine tools from the orient that go for the cheapest price possible and their reputation reflects that. Then there are other companies that import machines, often from the same manufacturer that pay attention to the details, have their own quality control process and deliver a much better grade of tool, at a higher price, but then you get what you pay for.
Personally, when I upgraded my metal lathe about 5 years ago, I went with a Taiwanese machine that was distributed by a machine tool company here in Canada that deals primarily with industry. They will not accept the lower end products form the suppliers and are willing to pay the extra for the better grades, knowing that their clients are also willing to pay the extra, or they would deal with the companies that have the reputation of being "not even good enough for the weekend warrior".
This company had a Chinese lathe in its offering that was the same size, but you could tell that it was an entry level machine, even with it being built the the tighter specs that this supplier demanded. The Taiwanese lathe was over twice as much money, it was at least three times the machine. Better fit and finish, better grades of castings, and the electrics were a much better quality.
I am glad I went with the lathe I did. I had wanted an older US made machine, such as a 14" swing Logan, but they were not to be found in this neighbourhood, and I had at the time been tempted to hold out for the South Bend that Shiraz was just starting to produce as it had some nice features, like constant velocity, forced oil lubrication, etc, but it was about 1000 lbs heavier than the Gosan I choose and was still not released, and there was no firm date as to when it would be released, while the Gosan was sitting on the suppliers floor in Calgary ready to ship!
Generally if you deal with a distributor that deals with industry, you will get a better quality machine and have better after sales support, but you will pay a higher price for the machine. If you deal with a distributer that deals with the home hobbiest, then you will get the machines that are made to a price point, and service follows suit with the lower cost machine.
I had a service manager of a firm state outright, that the machine that they sold was not designed to be used industrially, and questioned why anyone would bother buying it if they were even semi-serious about having one. Not a good advertisement for that brand. LOL
Walter