Setup Help With Acer Dynamic 1340g

Keep trying to convert the Controls or throw in the towel and use the VFD only?

  • CONVERT - resistence is futile

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • Lose the old and busted and stick with the new hotness -

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
You need to see the configuration of the 2 contactors you currently have in the machine, I would guess they are either 4 NO OR they could be 3 NO and one NC. The NC is usually wired to the 24VAC and shuts off the opposing contactor when activated. Then I would use a 3NO and 1NC contactor. WEG Electric CWC series miniature contactor, 16 amps, 3 N.O. power poles, coil voltage 24VAC, 1 N.C. auxiliary contact Model CWC016-01-30V04 https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...tactors_(3-Pole)/16_Amp_(AC3)/CWC016-01-30V04
The way the schematic it looks like 3NO which are each phase of the motor and one NC which feeds 24VAC coil power to the other contactor. You would need two contactors to replace the Forward/Reverse. The idea would be to srip the HV L1-L3 and T1-T3 and the thermal bypass for the main motor, but keep the low voltage 24VAC the same. Please check what you have, I cannot tell from the picture above.

Regards,
Mark
 
IMG_0489.jpg

The threading chart, that is wrong. Through trial and error, here is the correct settings:

14-ADRW
16-BCQX
18-BCTZ
20-BCRX
24-ACPX
28-BCRW
32-ACQX

Stob, as you can see, the threading chart on my E-Mill is totally different than yours ?? Go figure. I have never had any trouble single pointing threads although I have not used all on the chart.


IMG_0808.JPG
 
You need to see the configuration of the 2 contactors you currently have in the machine, I would guess they are either 4 NO OR they could be 3 NO and one NC. The NC is usually wired to the 24VAC and shuts off the opposing contactor when activated. Then I would use a 3NO and 1NC contactor. WEG Electric CWC series miniature contactor, 16 amps, 3 N.O. power poles, coil voltage 24VAC, 1 N.C. auxiliary contact Model CWC016-01-30V04 https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...tactors_(3-Pole)/16_Amp_(AC3)/CWC016-01-30V04
The way the schematic it looks like 3NO which are each phase of the motor and one NC which feeds 24VAC coil power to the other contactor. You would need two contactors to replace the Forward/Reverse. The idea would be to srip the HV L1-L3 and T1-T3 and the thermal bypass for the main motor, but keep the low voltage 24VAC the same. Please check what you have, I cannot tell from the picture above.

Regards,
Mark
Ok mark it looks like they are 2 Teco CN-16's With a Teco CNA-111s attached to the side. If I'm understanding the terms correctly there are 2 NO's on the Teco CN-16 and 2 on the CNA-111s for a total of 4. The NC's are 2 on the CN-16 and 2 on the CNA-111s as well. I will attach better pictures of how they are wired. Here's the links to new ones if it helps:
CN-16's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAIAN-MOTOR...KEN-THERMAL-OVERLOAD-BTH-18T2H22/122042866062
CNA-111s:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-NEW-TECO-CNA-111S-Ac-contactor-/371527223137

Uploading better pictures of the contactors next.
 
View media item 95669see if that helps hopefully at this resolution you can seem them well enough. I have higher res photos on my Google drive.
actually now that I look at it it looks like the CN-16's don't have any NO's only the CNA-111's have them so 4 NC's and 2 NO's I was confusing the 24vac A1 and A2 terminals at the bottom with the NO's.
Ok so loosely following the instructionsfor the PM1340GT you have out there Mark I think I have everything wired IF I was going to use the existing contactors. I don't think I will I just though it would be good practice/learning if I did the wiring. The PM1340GT uses a relay and my lathe has a Teco CN-11 ( 2 NO's - 0 NC's) so that's a bit confusing. Plus mine had the extra wiring for the coolant pump, but all that did was shift everything over on the numbers to 5,6,and 7.
 
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I would ignore the 1340GT wiring and trying to port everything over to yours, the wiring/terminal connections are different. The picture is still too fuzzy to make out the contator specifics. My guess is they are 3 NO and one auxiliary which is a NC, the Teco model number would be CN-16 3atb if such. These should be a replacement http://www.factorymation.com/CU-22-B6 as they have both a NC and NO auxiliary contacts. When replacing them you need to match up the red control wiring with the same terminals and auxiliary NC/NO connections. If there is a an additional contact block on the side of your CU-16's that could also be used, they switch the 24 VAC. Otherwise I would recommend trying to get the same contactor for the CN-16's as the model number you have this information would be on the side. You leave the CN-11's and all the other terminal connections to the board with the exception of the high voltage wiring. You could leave the current contactors rewire everything so it checks out and then replace the the CN-16 contactors at a later time. Often the upper body of the contactor is removable and can also be replaced separate from the coil assembly.

1. Remove the black high voltage black wires as shown in the purple circles. Power 240 VAC will come in to the R and S to the fuses, the power from the fuses (3 black wires connect to the reverse contactor) will be redirected to connect directly to the coolant contactor (shown in yellow). At the coolant contactor there are two red wires labeled R and S, either leave these connected to the coolant contactor or connect them directly to the R and S at the fuse connections, they provide power to the transformer. If needed, I recommend just replacing the coolant pump itself with a single phase model at a later date. You would power it from the R (U1) and S (V1) terminals.
Mod 1.jpg

2. Remove the thermal overload OL1 on the forward CN-16 contactor and the black wires going to the main motor terminals U, V, W. There should also be two red wires going to the motor thermal overload OL1 and it should be a NC connection. These two wires need to be connected together after you remove the thermal overload.
Shematic.jpg
After making the changes, I would power up the system before connecting the VFD to make sure the contactors are closing and the controls work as before.

3. Then Connect L1 on the forward contactor (one which had the thermal overload relay) to VFD P24 and T1 to VFD input 1 (forward) and Connect VFD P24 to L1 on the reverse contactor (one which had the thermal overload relay) and T1 to VFD input 2 (reverse).

4. Power going to the VFD could be picked up from the R and S terminals after fuses, or you can have separate fusing/breaker in another electrical box. Motor terminals from the VFD go directly to the same motor terminals as before on the motor. If the motor is running in the wrong direction, just switch any of the two motor terminal connections at the motor only. The VFD should have an external braking resistor, there is just too much momentum in the system for the internal braking resistor to handle. Programming parameters would be similar to what I posted for the PM1340GT, BUT the motor parameters (voltage, kW, poles) need to be set for your motor. The voltage is 230V A082 = 4 and the motor is 2.2kW H003 = 2.2, the default poles is 4 which is the same as your motor.

This is a general overview, it is hard to give specifics without seeing the system, hands on, so this is at your risk and assumes you have some general familiarity with electrical hookup.
 
Got a cold :disgust: taking a break from the shop. I only have a space heater out there, and it's 12 degree's. Concrete slab draws the life right out of you, especially already feeling ill. VFD should be here tomorrow. I'm rigging up a test run of the control board. Still just trying to understand how to make it all work. Going to take some pictures of the button panel next time I'm out there.

Any recommendations on the control wire? seems like shielded is the way to go and I have some old 2 wire shielded 22awg from a friend who wired refrigeration units for Walmart. Actually I have a lot of it almost a full 1000 ft. roll. I'm sure the VFD manual will probably say what to use but it would be nice to use up some of that if possible. Google sent me to "Wire and Cable Your Way" for VFD wire 16awg 4 conductor shielded, but they have a 20 ft. minimum and it's about $53 so I'm just wondering what everybody else did.
 
I would ignore the 1340GT wiring and trying to port everything over to yours, the wiring/terminal connections are different. The picture is still too fuzzy to make out the contator specifics. My guess is they are 3 NO and one auxiliary which is a NC, the Teco model number would be CN-16 3atb if such. These should be a replacement http://www.factorymation.com/CU-22-B6 as they have both a NC and NO auxiliary contacts. When replacing them you need to match up the red control wiring with the same terminals and auxiliary NC/NO connections. If there is a an additional contact block on the side of your CU-16's that could also be used, they switch the 24 VAC. Otherwise I would recommend trying to get the same contactor for the CN-16's as the model number you have this information would be on the side. You leave the CN-11's and all the other terminal connections to the board with the exception of the high voltage wiring. You could leave the current contactors rewire everything so it checks out and then replace the the CN-16 contactors at a later time. Often the upper body of the contactor is removable and can also be replaced separate from the coil assembly.

1. Remove the black high voltage black wires as shown in the purple circles. Power 240 VAC will come in to the R and S to the fuses, the power from the fuses (3 black wires connect to the reverse contactor) will be redirected to connect directly to the coolant contactor (shown in yellow). At the coolant contactor there are two red wires labeled R and S, either leave these connected to the coolant contactor or connect them directly to the R and S at the fuse connections, they provide power to the transformer. If needed, I recommend just replacing the coolant pump itself with a single phase model at a later date. You would power it from the R (U1) and S (V1) terminals.
View attachment 142878

2. Remove the thermal overload OL1 on the forward CN-16 contactor and the black wires going to the main motor terminals U, V, W. There should also be two red wires going to the motor thermal overload OL1 and it should be a NC connection. These two wires need to be connected together after you remove the thermal overload.
View attachment 142879
After making the changes, I would power up the system before connecting the VFD to make sure the contactors are closing and the controls work as before.

3. Then Connect L1 on the forward contactor (one which had the thermal overload relay) to VFD P24 and T1 to VFD input 1 (forward) and Connect VFD P24 to L1 on the reverse contactor (one which had the thermal overload relay) and T1 to VFD input 2 (reverse).

4. Power going to the VFD could be picked up from the R and S terminals after fuses, or you can have separate fusing/breaker in another electrical box. Motor terminals from the VFD go directly to the same motor terminals as before on the motor. If the motor is running in the wrong direction, just switch any of the two motor terminal connections at the motor only. The VFD should have an external braking resistor, there is just too much momentum in the system for the internal braking resistor to handle. Programming parameters would be similar to what I posted for the PM1340GT, BUT the motor parameters (voltage, kW, poles) need to be set for your motor. The voltage is 230V A082 = 4 and the motor is 2.2kW H003 = 2.2, the default poles is 4 which is the same as your motor.

This is a general overview, it is hard to give specifics without seeing the system, hands on, so this is at your risk and assumes you have some general familiarity with electrical hookup.
Thanks by the way Mike. I've never done a rewire of contactors before, everything I've done has been new wire and just follow the diagram. This will be the first time I've ever had to understand what is actually happening rather than just following a diagram. It's good for me.
 
The VFD communications cable I would us 4 or 5 wire cable 22AWG (18-22AWG is the recommend size), shielded is better, but probably not a big deal if a short run under 5-6 feet. Do NOT run any of these cables next to or tied to the motor cable, keep them at least 6" apart when they are run in parallel (you can get noise contamination from the motor cable). The VFD controls need at least 3 wires, and if you modify the JOG to be run by the VFD you will need another wire. On the speed pot you need a minimum of 3 wires, once again shielded is preferred but not necessary. The VFD uses push in connectors, I use small round ferrules on my VFD communication cables, other wise you may need to tin them. I do not recommend solid core wire. The wire gets pushed into the respective contact hole and I give a slight tug when pushed in to seat the wire. To remove a wire you need to press on the little orange tab with a very small screw driver, push the wire slightly in (to release the jaws and then gently pull out the wire. This is in the manual and also shown in my basic install instructions.
Something like this (4 conductor shielded 20 or 22AWG) could be used for both.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/16awg-4c-Shielded-Stranded-Wire-Cable-For-CNC-Stepper-Motor-20ft-/322327127623

http://www.ebay.com/itm/22awg-4c-Sh...able-For-CNC-Stepper-Motor-25ft-/322327124892

VFD to motor is 3 phase and can be 12 or 14AWG 600V rated cable 4 conductor, you need 3 wires (U, V, W) plus a separate ground. If long runs then I use shielded, but probably fine to use unshielded.
Mark
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A few updates.

First off I've temporarily given up on getting the control board working as it came with the lathe. I've tested the contacts and they are working individually, but I can't seem to get the switching right. So my goal is back to just getting the lathe working with the VFD and then circling back around and rewiring the existing contactors to give me switch control back at the lathe. When I do circle back around if I can get to the point where I understand how to wire the forward, reverse, and jog then I will look at replacing the contactors. ( I think the jog is actually whats giving me most of the trouble right now because I still don't quit understand how it's suppose to work and why). At this point I've completely removed all the wires from the contactors anyway during my troubleshooting so I'm basically starting from scratch. So not ideal, but I'm learning a lot so it's good for me, and if I can't figure it out I can just settle for VFD control and find a way to mount the VFD closer to the lathe.

Second a word on oil. HOLY COW :dejected: My thinking was I would just write down the oil I needed for the lathe and go into a hardware store and get it... NOPE! I went in the store with my list as ISO 32, 46, and 68 non-detergent oil. Seemed logical to me but I knew I was in trouble when both the hardware stores I went to replied with "we have motor oil". Nothing I found had anything labeled non-detergent and for some reason ISO oil is very rare in my area (maybe it's a standardization in some place other then where I am?) I found 1 gallon of ISO32 oil at Ace hardware http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1415921 which both the website and the store are amazingly under detailed. So then I decided to try Murdoch's which is the next closest store. Which they had ISO 68 http://www.murdochs.com/shop/lube-king-iso-68-heavy-hydraulic-fluid/ but nothing else that resembled my list on the shelves. Once again at both places the staff wasn't even remotely helpful. I never found anything ISO 46 and Non-detergent oil seems to be holy grail quest in my area. I did ask if or where I could find Mobile DTE 24 or 25, Mobil DTE Light or DTE Medium and that was basically like speaking Latin to a 4 year old. Response - "We have motor oil?"

Third I've made a project box out of ply and Acrylic for the VFD. We'll see how it holds together I'll try and get some pictures up this weekend. -update -1-29-17 = while the Acrylic looks awesome I used some really thin stuff I had lying around and it didn't hold up as I was riveting a door on the front. Lesson learned - buy thickers stuff or go with ply on the sides and acrylic for the door. I may redo the box later.
 
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