Saw blade tension and work force.

Mark_f

Registered
Registered
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
5
I don't know if this has been covered before or not, but. I have been kind of researching getting most efficient and maximum life from my bi metal band saw blades. I have the plans to build a tension gauge and was going to build it, but found out that is the least of problems. Blade tension is a fairly liberal spec and rarely is a factor in breaking the blades. I always make the tension knob "two eyed tight", which is evidently close to correct. a little too much tension is better than not enough ( to a point, before anyone pounces on that statement).
The biggest cause of blade breakage seems to be stress cracks radiating towards the teeth and the blade snaps.( or so I have read and been told by a reliable expert source). That being said these cracks are most often caused by too much force on the blade into the work and too much distance between the blade guides. So, I know to keep the guide distance as short as possible, but how do you guys (if you even do) determine the proper amount of down force on your blade, which technically should be different for different materials and even different size materials.
All this being said , I have determined there is truth to this because I have increased the down force (to cut faster) and blades break and don't last as long.
The expensive band saws have a pressure gauge and adjustable force, and even a guide to tell you about what to set it at. but alas, I am reduced to using a Chinese 4 x 6 saw from you know who. There is a poor excuse for adjustment via a garage door spring on these saws. I get my blades custom made (usually a 6/8 tooth combination) at a cost of $18 each and don't like breaking them. has anyone out there done anything about the control of down force on these cheap... er .... I mean inexpensive saws? or even thought about this subject?
I plan to try to figure a well made and cost effective solution and any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. I feel this would be a benefit to many of us.


Mark Frazier
 
On my old 4x6, I used to run the spring tension at near maximum. Then if I needed a bit more cutting pressure, I would just put my finger on the handle, and press down a bit. I always thought about putting a cylinder on it, but never got around to doing it in the 20 years I had it.

On my new (to me) Wells, I put a hydraulic cylinder with a flow control on it and left the spring intact also.
 
Years back, when I had my shop, I bought a new Ellis Horizontal Bandsaw. I don't remember the model but it was not the smallest nor the largest.

The instructions said to adjust the saw for 8 lbs pressure on the blade. This was crudely done with a fish scale. The saw had a tension spring to adjust to get that 8 lbs. There was also a hydraulic down feed cylinder to control the speed of descent. The saw had a 1" blade.

I don't know if that same pressure would apply to smaller saws. I have a HF 4X6 saw with a bi-metal blade and it cuts well with the spring pressure. I wish I had a hydraulic down feed cushion to control the saw as it nears the end of the cut.
 
On the 4x6 site they have all the plans and locations for getting a hydraulic cylinder set up on the 4x6 saws. Helps on the start and end of the cuts the most. Parts run around 80 bucks recycled and can be higher or lower depending on your local recycler.

Bob
 
Google "Horizontal Bandsaw Modifications" and be ready to read and watch for the next week or two.

"Billy G"
 
Years back, when I had my shop, I bought a new Ellis Horizontal Bandsaw. I don't remember the model but it was not the smallest nor the largest.

The instructions said to adjust the saw for 8 lbs pressure on the blade. This was crudely done with a fish scale. The saw had a tension spring to adjust to get that 8 lbs. There was also a hydraulic down feed cylinder to control the speed of descent. The saw had a 1" blade.

I don't know if that same pressure would apply to smaller saws. I have a HF 4X6 saw with a bi-metal blade and it cuts well with the spring pressure. I wish I had a hydraulic down feed cushion to control the saw as it nears the end of the cut.


Most of what I have read says the pressure is the same up to a 1 1/4" blade. They just didn't say what that pressure was. Starrett has chart , I think. I will download it.
I Google's band saw mods and that was the only thing I didn't see. I going to look some more. I was thinking a fish scale might work to set it. I would like to be able to easily set the saw for what I am doing. If anyone is interested, I will post my solution when finished.

Mark Frazier
 
I for one would be really interested to see your results, Mark. When I added a hydraulic to my little 4x6 i remember having a lot of trouble getting my head around what was happening with the down pressure as the saw frame fell through its arc during the cut. I never measured it, and it still twists me out of shape just thinking about it again!

Keller Saw had an interesting solution -- on my 3WA power hack it uses a combination of metered hydraulic oil on one side of the piston, and regulated compressed air on the other side of the piston in the same cylinder. Air provides the true down feed assist power, and the oil controls how fast the frame descends. Mine is still in rebuild mode, but I'm anxious to get it going again to watch how that works.

Great projects you do, by the way. Your work is really impressive and don't give any credence to the idiots who have nothing better to do than try to cut someone else down.

-frank
 
Just wanted to mention that tightening the big spring on a 4x6 saw takes pressure off the blade or at least it does on all the ones I have seen.
 
I run my spring slack and have to big U bolts hanging off the end. Still need a finger sometimes. I just broke the blade on Thanksgiving. Lasted a LONG time.
 
That is my question. You run with no spring tension, another guy runs with maximum spring tension, I am running with medium spring tension. some guys are hanging weights on the saw, All basically on the same type saw. what is the difference or doesn't it matter?:dunno:

What started this whole question for me was, My saw cuts good, straight, but slow. We are talking solid round or square stock here. My blades last a long time, but I thought the cuts were taking way to long in say 2 inch and larger material. I use good blades and they are custom made for me by a local industrial supplier ( this guy knows saw blades). I increased the down force by loosening the spring and it cuts somewhat faster but I think it is detrimental to my blade life. Thus my question, if anyone knew the recommended down force in pounds.

I have decided to add a hydraulic cylinder to the saw in place of the spring. The cylinder and flow/check valve are about $70 from McMaster Carr. the main reason for this is to easily control the cut in soft material and tubing to avoid tearing it up and not have to crank 50 turns on that spring bolt. But if I knew the ideal cutting force , I could easily set the desired force by setting the proper color band on the valve, as I can measure the force in pounds at each setting and just turn the valve to the setting for that material and get maximum blade life and use in the process.

I was just hoping to do this without sacrificing saw blades in the process, but there are so many varying opinions, I believe this one is going to be a learn by doing thing :makingdecision:

Thank you all, every one of you, for your input here ( it has probably been more helpful than you know)
Mark Frazier:))


I run my spring slack and have to big U bolts hanging off the end. Still need a finger sometimes. I just broke the blade on Thanksgiving. Lasted a LONG time.

Yea , I've done the finger thing on the handle a few times too. :rofl:
 
Back
Top