Ran the Tail Stock Out Too Far Again!

David2011

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The lathe in the story below is a G9972Z, an 11x26 machine that is very much like the 10x22 G0602.

The work was going a little better than the night before. I'm a volunteer on the Battleship USS Texas restoration and my current project is making six new screws for part of the sights on 1912 vintage 5" Naval guns. The screws are about 18" long and 1-1/8" x 7 tpi left hand threads. A Battleship Texas Foundation employee ordered the threaded rod. The salesman said in the 20 years he had worked at that business it was the first time they had sold 1-1/8x7 LH all thread but they had it in stock for only $198.00 for 3 feet. Sorry; that's all irrelevant to the tail stock problem; just had to set the stage. One other detail; the 5" guns have to go back onto the ship in less than 2 weeks while it's still in dry dock because they're big and they weigh about 25,000 pounds each.

Anyway, there I was, making some bushings to replicate a 3/4" thick x 1.5" OD feature on the screws out of some unknown dumpster steel I picked up one day. Actually, I think the material was bolts for attaching the halves of gas turbine generator engines. I got about 9" x 1-1/2" of cleaned up stock out of each bolt. I was drilling one of the pieces and everything was going great, as is customary right before disaster strikes. I was increasing the diameter of the drills 1/16" at a time as that's the horsepower limit for the lathe. I think I was up to the 11/16" bit and the chips were flowing out past the bit. Suddenly everything started spinning. I had run the quill out past the anti-rotation screw. It wasn't the first time so I had a pretty good idea what to do. The usual fix it to take the quill and leadscrew out of the tail stock, oil them and work the screw in and out until it turns smoothly again. Reassemble and go back to what I was doing. Not this time, though!

The screw didn't want to thread back into the quill while in the tail stock. On the bench, I got them to screw back together but the threads were tight. Suddenly, with about 1-1/2" of lead screw in the quill, it locked up tight. The oxygen and acetylene tanks were empty so all I had for heat was a propane torch. Any place selling welding gases had been closed for hours. After a couple of tries to use heat to get the screw out of the quill I decided to let it soak in Kroil. The assembly was clamped in the milling vise vertically and I sprayed Kroil into the quill. I left it to sit and soak. After an hour or so I went back to the shop. This was really troubling because of the short timeline before the ship is put back in the water. I hooked a strap from a light duty cargo strap onto the tail stock hand wheel handle, wrapped the strap over the hand wheel and screw shaft in an unlikely macrame and stuck a large screwdriver through the metal hook of the strap and put the tip against the hand wheel handle. IT BUDGED! Not much, but any movement was good. After a few more attempts and refining the cargo strap winding the screw finally came out. It actually looked OK but the tightness said otherwise. I tried lapping it with Flitz and that seemed to help a little but it still was stiff. Finally, I chucked the screw up in the lathe and chased the threads with a regular file on its corner, being fresh out of left hand metric thread files. There was only a little accumulation of shavings on the file but when I tried the screw in the quill again it worked like new.

THE SOLUTION: I marked the center of the anti-rotation slot as close as I dared to the open end of the slot. I'm drilling and tapping to put a socket head cap screw in that slot so that the quill cannot be accidentally advanced too far. I'll use a metric SHCS if I have one the right size; otherwise it will get an 8-32 with the head cut down a few thou. That will mean that the anti-rotation screw has to be retracted to remove the quill but if this works out well I shouldn't need to remove the quill very often. So far it's only been removed after I ran it out too far.
 
Good save. I had a similar amount of fun when my G0602 tail stock was extended too far, although not under a time constraint. It was tough to get it back in place. Like you, had to bring it to the bench as it didn't want to reassemble without various pursuations. It is still a little stiff compared to when I got it, but it is functional. When I get a chance, I need to revisit it.
 
Wobbly, I think your tail stock is identical to mine. I was amazed at how effective it was to run a file in the groove of the thread. A triangular file would have been better but that would have required thinking skills that I no longer had at 2:00 this morning. It's smooth as glass now and had been stiff ever since the first time I ran it out too far.

For others that don't have this tail stock, Grizzly says it has 2-1/2" of travel. Part of that, 0.3" - 0.4", is used to push out the Morse taper of whatever tool you're using so you're down to 2.1-2.2" travel at most. When things are going really well in a difficult operation it's easy to lose track of the quill position. One turn too many and the quill is free to spin. The anti-rotation slot is open ended. The anti-rotation locator is a long set screw. If Grizzly had only left the slot closed at the right end this could not occur.
 
Wobbly, I think your tail stock is identical to mine. I was amazed at how effective it was to run a file in the groove of the thread. A triangular file would have been better but that would have required thinking skills that I no longer had at 2:00 this morning. It's smooth as glass now and had been stiff ever since the first time I ran it out too far.

For others that don't have this tail stock, Grizzly says it has 2-1/2" of travel. Part of that, 0.3" - 0.4", is used to push out the Morse taper of whatever tool you're using so you're down to 2.1-2.2" travel at most. When things are going really well in a difficult operation it's easy to lose track of the quill position. One turn too many and the quill is free to spin. The anti-rotation slot is open ended. The anti-rotation locator is a long set screw. If Grizzly had only left the slot closed at the right end this could not occur.
I'll have to try that with a triangular file. Or even to see if I can chase the thread single pointing. That might be hard to sync the threads though.

There's not much travel on these tail stocks. I'm using up 12mm because I was too lazy/squeamish to grind off the morse tapers. I should really take off more. I did modify my tail stock by putting in a larger set screw and turning the set screw point to a dogleg. The original used an unaltered set screw, and only a couple of threads were all that was resisting rotation. The modified set screw is much, better, as there is a solid cylinder contacting all of the anti-rotation slot. I turned the setscrew down until it was a snug sliding fit in the slot.
 
The problem with the 602 is that the key is actually the thread on the M8 set screw. This means that the sole point of contact with the slot is a single point. I ran chowdered up the quill when I ran into a high torque situation lifting a burr on the quill which impeded movement, I removed the burr, allowing free movement again. Then I made a reverse set screw which provides full face contact rather than a single point . I had written it up for the now defunct Yahoo Grizzly G0602 and the like forum. Here is a model of the key.

G0602 Quill Key.JPG
There is a bit of an problem inserting it into the tailstock as the lead screw is inserted from the front and has to be at least started before inserting the key. I was able to position the key enough to use a screwdriver to pull it into position. This approach would preclude using the OP's solution though.

Another solution for the inadequate key is to drill and tap the tailstock for an M10 dog point set screw. It's not as robust but it would allow the OP's solution. Yet another solution would be to extend the slot by 3/4" and drill and tap for a second key 3/4" forward of the existing. hole. This will ensure that the lead screw disengages before the key and should prevent rotation of the quill. The added benefit is that there is double the antirotation force for quill extensions of less than 2"
 
The problem with the 602 is that the key is actually the thread on the M8 set screw. This means that the sole point of contact with the slot is a single point.

Another solution for the inadequate key is to drill and tap the tailstock for an M10 dog point set screw. It's not as robust but it would allow the OP's solution. Yet another solution would be to extend the slot by 3/4" and drill and tap for a second key 3/4" forward of the existing. hole. This will ensure that the lead screw disengages before the key and should prevent rotation of the quill. The added benefit is that there is double the antirotation force for quill extensions of less than 2"
I put in the M10 dog point set screw, when this happened to me, based on your suggestion. I made it from a normal M10 set screw and turned it to be a snug fit to the slot. Extending the slot and adding another set screw sounds likes a good addition.
 
Adding a second set screw forward sounds like a really good solution. Adding a stop shortened the travel more than I expected, to the point that there might not be enough travel to get a tool to the face of a workpiece that's supported by a live center. Other than that, it works as expected and is a viable and relatively easy fix. Now that I've done it, another possibility came to mind and that is to attach a strap across the end of the quill with a pair of small screws. The last 0.3" of retraction has no benefit as the tools have been ejected at about 0.4" so the screw heads wouldn't interfere with anything. I'll try that when the time crunch has passed.

But, since everyone likes pictures. . .
 

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Adding a second set screw forward sounds like a really good solution. Adding a stop shortened the travel more than I expected, to the point that there might not be enough travel to get a tool to the face of a workpiece that's supported by a live center. Other than that, it works as expected and is a viable and relatively easy fix. Now that I've done it, another possibility came to mind and that is to attach a strap across the end of the quill with a pair of small screws. The last 0.3" of retraction has no benefit as the tools have been ejected at about 0.4" so the screw heads wouldn't interfere with anything. I'll try that when the time crunch has passed.

But, since everyone likes pictures. . .
I trim the ends of my tailstock tapers so they eject at about .05" from the end of travel. But I thought about adding a washer to the end of the quill . I would have to pull the quill in order to check and I'd rather not do that as I have disconnect and remove my tailstock DRO scale.
 
I trim the ends of my tailstock tapers so they eject at about .05" from the end of travel. But I thought about adding a washer to the end of the quill . I would have to pull the quill in order to check and I'd rather not do that as I have disconnect and remove my tailstock DRO scale.
How do you hold the MT3 to cut it off? That's a great and Captain Obvious way to gain some travel.
 
How do you hold the MT3 to cut it off? That's a great and Captain Obvious way to gain some travel.
I cut the tangs off with an abrasive disk in a Dremel. With the bulk of the material removed, I can touch the end up on the bench grinder or in the case of a chuck or live center, mount them in the lathe chuck to clean them up.
 
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