- Joined
- Aug 12, 2013
- Messages
- 858
That would be a killer upgrade if he offered it to every new purchaser. Except for the overseas shipping costs (ZOINKS!) it would be a no-brainer.
-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
PM-1236 motor issue
- Thread starter tino_ale
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2013
- Messages
- 1,791
I commend you on your patience. I'm not sure I could jump through so many hoops if the machines under warranty. If you done nothing wrong, I dont think you should incur any cost at all. If it was me I would see about a credit for replacement cost then source my own set up and use the credit on other things.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2014
- Messages
- 225
That's a real good price on those pieces.
Matt is offering to replace the motor at no cost for me, including shipping costs, although they are normally not covered. What is left to me is a possible 20% customs tax that I'm not sure about, depending on my luck I guess.
So I have that option available.
Or, I can use that credit for a better deal on the VFD upgrade. That's where the dilema kicks in !
About my patience, hell yes, I think I have been patient... actually you have no idea. That motor issue is almost nothing.
The order of my lathe has been extremely long, for various reasons, it made it to my door one FULL YEAR after the full payment.
I found out right here on this forum (Matt never told me) that it seems it is my order that triggered the whole metric machines story. There has been other issues with my order (missing parts among other things) that have now been resolved. Now the motor issue... Looks like there is some really bad karma surrounding my first machine purchase.
It is safe to say it's been a major PITA for both Matt and I, but I've waited so long to place that order, years litteraly, that I want to make things right even if it takes some additionnal efforts.
So I have that option available.
Or, I can use that credit for a better deal on the VFD upgrade. That's where the dilema kicks in !
About my patience, hell yes, I think I have been patient... actually you have no idea. That motor issue is almost nothing.
The order of my lathe has been extremely long, for various reasons, it made it to my door one FULL YEAR after the full payment.
I found out right here on this forum (Matt never told me) that it seems it is my order that triggered the whole metric machines story. There has been other issues with my order (missing parts among other things) that have now been resolved. Now the motor issue... Looks like there is some really bad karma surrounding my first machine purchase.
It is safe to say it's been a major PITA for both Matt and I, but I've waited so long to place that order, years litteraly, that I want to make things right even if it takes some additionnal efforts.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2013
- Messages
- 2,651
I personally would tell Matt that the motor is clearly defective under warranty and that I want a replacement.
I would also want to know why the machine is drawing .35A when supposedly turned off.
IMO the upgrade to a 3 PH motor and VFD is an idea worth seriously considering!
AS I understand the thread: Matt is offering to either send you a new 'stock' motor, or credit you for that motor towards the VFD and Leeson.
IMO the latter might be worth serious consideration.
There is a thread somewhere in the PM forum, by MJKS (did I get that screen name wrong), about his mods to a 1340GT with a VFD.
IMO the VFD upgrade is gonna be some serious elec work, it will stretch the average person who does not understand electricity well.
Having said that... I suspect the folks on this forum will help.
Personally, I would do all the research until I felt like I understood how to do it... Then find a local person who understands these things and pay them to come over and help with the wiring. In US$'s; an investment of around $50 for a couple of hours help... would IMO be money well spent.
Just my $0.02 worth...
Glad Matt came through for you on replacing the motor... a significant part of why I chose to go with PM products was/is Matt being an honest guy that understands customer service. Usually, one gets what they pay for... rarely does one get the lowest price with the highest customer service...
For me, the customer service is more important than getting the rock bottom deal.
Hope this helps.
GA
AS I understand the thread: Matt is offering to either send you a new 'stock' motor, or credit you for that motor towards the VFD and Leeson.
IMO the latter might be worth serious consideration.
There is a thread somewhere in the PM forum, by MJKS (did I get that screen name wrong), about his mods to a 1340GT with a VFD.
IMO the VFD upgrade is gonna be some serious elec work, it will stretch the average person who does not understand electricity well.
Having said that... I suspect the folks on this forum will help.
Personally, I would do all the research until I felt like I understood how to do it... Then find a local person who understands these things and pay them to come over and help with the wiring. In US$'s; an investment of around $50 for a couple of hours help... would IMO be money well spent.
Just my $0.02 worth...
Glad Matt came through for you on replacing the motor... a significant part of why I chose to go with PM products was/is Matt being an honest guy that understands customer service. Usually, one gets what they pay for... rarely does one get the lowest price with the highest customer service...
For me, the customer service is more important than getting the rock bottom deal.
Hope this helps.
GA
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4,811
In the long term, reading the motor issues with the stock single phase Chinese motor, a VFD conversion may ultimately be in the cards. That is excellent pricing for a WJ200 VFD and 2HP 3 phase Leeson motor.
I went over the top in my VFD conversion, mostly because I had a specific set of functions and interlocks I wanted to incorporate. I also had the time and background to do a more complicated set-up, and I would not recommend that level of complexity/build unless you are very familiar with doing so. It is always a learning exercise, at first I was quite intimidated by the whole process and the complexity of the command structure of these types of VFDs. That being said, it is a problem solving challenge, and you do it in a stepwise fashion.
I would keep things simple for most VFD installs, the PDF description for the PM1236 is very straight forward and very cleverly done. I would get rid of the Jog direction switch and the green wire connection to the reverse terminal 10, see revised schematic adaptation. Also note that one should not use a manual lathe brake and the VFD brake at the same time. This is not addressed in the original schematic. I do not see this as a big issue, it may or may not be cause a problem, but the VFD brakes using a programmed algorithm you specify. If the manual brakes is faster than the VFD electronic brake, the VFD may add power to match the programmed braking curve. I use an electronic 1 second braking time so probably not a problem with this quick an interval, and may not require the additional foot switch/command.
It is possible to do the VFD conversion in a basic form with very little effort or changes to the system. If the most rudimentary conversion form, one could easily remove the 220V power to the forward/reverse contactors. Then connect P24 to one set of the contacts in the forward and reverse contactor to send commands to the VFD for the forward/Reverse commands. This retains all the safety and interlock features. The Jog function on the Hitachi requires two commands to be sent to the WJ200, Jog command and Forward or Reverse command at the same time. I see no reason to have a reverse Jog, so one just powers the existing jog switch from P24. When the jog button is engaged it connects P24 to the VFD terminal 3 JG and a diode (1N4001, 1N4004 or similar) wired to VFD terminal 1 (FW). The diode must be used, otherwise when the forward signal command is engaged it would backfeed the Jog command. Been there, done that.
The VFD is direct wired to the motor, 3 wires (should be shielded 14G). You need a breaker/on off switch to power up everything. Take it one step at a time. I will post the suggested programming variables when I get time.
Mark
I went over the top in my VFD conversion, mostly because I had a specific set of functions and interlocks I wanted to incorporate. I also had the time and background to do a more complicated set-up, and I would not recommend that level of complexity/build unless you are very familiar with doing so. It is always a learning exercise, at first I was quite intimidated by the whole process and the complexity of the command structure of these types of VFDs. That being said, it is a problem solving challenge, and you do it in a stepwise fashion.
I would keep things simple for most VFD installs, the PDF description for the PM1236 is very straight forward and very cleverly done. I would get rid of the Jog direction switch and the green wire connection to the reverse terminal 10, see revised schematic adaptation. Also note that one should not use a manual lathe brake and the VFD brake at the same time. This is not addressed in the original schematic. I do not see this as a big issue, it may or may not be cause a problem, but the VFD brakes using a programmed algorithm you specify. If the manual brakes is faster than the VFD electronic brake, the VFD may add power to match the programmed braking curve. I use an electronic 1 second braking time so probably not a problem with this quick an interval, and may not require the additional foot switch/command.
It is possible to do the VFD conversion in a basic form with very little effort or changes to the system. If the most rudimentary conversion form, one could easily remove the 220V power to the forward/reverse contactors. Then connect P24 to one set of the contacts in the forward and reverse contactor to send commands to the VFD for the forward/Reverse commands. This retains all the safety and interlock features. The Jog function on the Hitachi requires two commands to be sent to the WJ200, Jog command and Forward or Reverse command at the same time. I see no reason to have a reverse Jog, so one just powers the existing jog switch from P24. When the jog button is engaged it connects P24 to the VFD terminal 3 JG and a diode (1N4001, 1N4004 or similar) wired to VFD terminal 1 (FW). The diode must be used, otherwise when the forward signal command is engaged it would backfeed the Jog command. Been there, done that.
The VFD is direct wired to the motor, 3 wires (should be shielded 14G). You need a breaker/on off switch to power up everything. Take it one step at a time. I will post the suggested programming variables when I get time.
Mark
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
- Messages
- 200
Yep, the switch SHOULD be opening. Given the distinct click heard on the video when spinning down I think the mechanism is definitely tripping on start-up. Whether the contacts open... Also, the motor appears to be a "cap start/cap run motor. A shorted run cap would be as bad, or worse, than a stuck start switch. 75% rated speed sounds like a lot for the start winding to drop out from my experience but I can't argue with the manufacturer.
Thanks for the link.
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
- Messages
- 786
19.5 amps no load is DEFINITELY an issue. That motor has a shorted winding or a miswired loop. I think if Matt sends you a replacement all will be OK. That motor is no good for sure! Even at 50 Hz, the motor should work fine (albeit with reduced efficiency).
All in all, if it were me, I'd consider a 3 phase motor and a VFD. Motor vibration from the single phase motor does put a limit on surface finish....
John
All in all, if it were me, I'd consider a 3 phase motor and a VFD. Motor vibration from the single phase motor does put a limit on surface finish....
John
Hi guys,
I've checked my motor wiring, it is correct. Not identical to the pic Matt sent me, but correct none the less. The issue seems internal to the motor, definitely.
Now considering that motor has to be replaced, I can either use the credit for a spare unit, or use it towards the VFD and better motor upgrade.
I did not plan for that expense that soon, but I felt it would be somewhat a waste to use that credit for a low quality single phase motor, even one running ok, considering I would like to upgrade to VFD eventually. Well it's going to be sooner than later !
So, you got it, I bit the bullet with the 2HP Hitachi VFD and 2HP 3-phase Leeson motor. :shush:
The installation will be an experience and probably a learning curve but considering the very helpful crowd I find here, the schematics... I feel I will make this happen. I will take my time and go step by step. I'll share how it goes for sure.
Thanks again all.
I've checked my motor wiring, it is correct. Not identical to the pic Matt sent me, but correct none the less. The issue seems internal to the motor, definitely.
Now considering that motor has to be replaced, I can either use the credit for a spare unit, or use it towards the VFD and better motor upgrade.
I did not plan for that expense that soon, but I felt it would be somewhat a waste to use that credit for a low quality single phase motor, even one running ok, considering I would like to upgrade to VFD eventually. Well it's going to be sooner than later !
So, you got it, I bit the bullet with the 2HP Hitachi VFD and 2HP 3-phase Leeson motor. :shush:
The installation will be an experience and probably a learning curve but considering the very helpful crowd I find here, the schematics... I feel I will make this happen. I will take my time and go step by step. I'll share how it goes for sure.
Thanks again all.