Perfection-precision

I, too, am an autodidact, and after 30 years I can now make pretty much make anything I want to with my imagination, a tooled up lathe and mill. My machine tools have been a fun hobby and on occasion, profitable, too. But, you will never reach perfection no matter how hard you try. Perfection is an ideal and hence, unattainable.

Perfection and precision are not the same thing. A perfect project is one that has no flaws. I can quite honestly say I’ve never achieved perfection on any project. Others, not machinists, may say it looks perfect, but I can see the slight mark in an out of sight spot and know that the polish is not quite what I really wanted. To the customer it is perfect, but I know that if I ever do this again, I can make it a little different and it will be better. A really good way to redefine perfection is to say does it do the job for which it is intended? If the answer is “yes”, then it is perfect, or at least close enough to perfection to pass muster.

Precision, on the other (machinist’s) hand is being able to reach a specified dimension with the required accuracy-whether it is 0.1 inch or 0.0001 inch. I have found that with my equipment and experience, I can reliably do about 0.002 inches. But I will always try for that dead nuts reading every time. And I’ve done it a few times, too.

Skill comes with experience and experience comes from making chips. So just keep making chips and you will get experience. I must admit that some of the things I’ve learned from experience I really didn’t want to know. Sometimes the lesson and the test come at the same time! There is no such thing as a stupid mistake. There are, however, a great many learning experiences.

My experience has been that 90% of the time is taken up with design and set up, with no more than 10% of the time actually making chips. The more time I spend on design, and set up, the fewer mistakes I make.

The most important thing is for you to have fun. Enjoy what you are doing. For me, when my lathe is humming and a gleaming spiral of aluminum is spinning off a nicely finished surface, life is good.
 
I got my first machine about 4 years ago. That was just after we moved into our first house, and I finally had some room for a shop. I started with a small import lathe, after a lot of research (youtube videos, internet forums, and books).

The first stuff I turned out on that machine was, not very good. I was pretty happy with it, but I didn't know any better at the time. Fast forward a few months, and I start looking back at older work, and wringing my hands, thinking about how I could do it so much better now. 4 years later, and I could probably complete all those older projects in half the time, and do them a lot better. I have better tools, and more experience.

The main thing about this (and any skill) is that the more you do it, the better you get, but only if you learn from what you are doing. It takes time, and you don't always see how far you have come until you look back and can barely see where you started.

I guess one other thing I would add is that, if you are not satisfied with the way a part came out, don't be afraid to re-make it. Look at what went wrong the first time. Ask more experienced folks how to improve on your last attempt, and then give it a try.
 
Perfection does not exist, precision does. If you are precise then what you make will fit and work as it is supposed to. Everything has a tolerance and as long as you are within the bounds you have reached precision. If you continue to try to reach perfection every part you make will be undersize because of "touch ups and tweaks" Work within tolerance and leave perfection alone. You will be a lot more satisfied when you make 10 exact copies of a part within tolerance quicker then you will ever make one perfect part. Trust me I learned this the hard way.

Bob
 
mf294-4 said:
What do you think? Is a person born with the natural talent of perfection-precision or is it learned with hours of experience. Starting out machining at 62, I don't have to many years of experience left or that many end mills either. I'm not located where there are a lot of experienced teachers either. Seems like my projects end up close enough but not what I would like or strive for. I'm not going to give up but it is discouraging at times.
Click to expand...

MF294-4, Now you listen to me brother, I have not read any of the responses yet, but really needed to respond right away. You are 4 years younger than me and I am still probably 6 months away from turning on my lathe for the very first time. I read a lot, and thanks to this forum, My kids tell me "Dad, you know more about machining, than any man, WHO HAS NEVER TURNED ON A MACHINE ". I've learned recently that the hardest part is learning how to ask questions. Once you get the hang of that, these great guys will give you all the knowledge you need! OK, rant over, now I'll go back and read the responses. Still have a lot to learn at 65. Never stop learning, JR49
 
MF,

I started turning metal at age 68 and have almost a year of experience. A few broken tools and ah-ha moments later it starts to feel good. I am glad it is not too easy. Its challenging, mysterious, and frustrating but I still can't get enough of it (and hope I never will).

Funny how we seek precision and perfection but find wisdom instead. One thing I learned early was don't be in a hurry and things will go quicker.

Looks like we are in good company at HM. We can get some mighty good instructions from the folks here.
 
Autodidact? Maybe a little but I would always tell my kids "hide and watch". That is what I have done since I was little. My grandfather used to call me quiet David. I would watch others perform tasks maybe (later in life when I wasn't so shy) ask a question or two and then figure out how I can apply it to my situation. This personality trait has served me well over the years. I think this is the same thing Marcel was describing above. Even though I bought my metal lathe and started turning before I ever asked a question I didn't teach myself. All of those I have observed over the years grinding, filing, welding, cutting, building houses I wired, posting information, etc. are the ones who taught me how to use a metal lathe even though they weren't using one. I simply adapted what I learned by hiding and watching. I've seen a few you tube videos, made a toy cannon and spun an aluminum candy dish in 8th grade and 40+ years later bought my metal lathe and mill. What a blast!

As far as tendancies, I believe we all land on this planet with gifts endowed from on high. Those may guide us through life if we take the time to nurture and cultivate them. And I believe as the good book says that if we lack wisdom we may ask of God for assistance and he will grant it. If we seek a good or wholesome gift, go all out to gain that gift without surrendering what good we are otherwise such as family we can achieve it.

Enjoy the journey,
Dave
 
perfection is impossible due to infinity. .00000000- it never ends.
 
There are three types of knowledge transfer as the receiver, those who listen, those who see, those who do. The order on how you best learn is a neuroscience topic. I am one that sees, then does and doesn't listen. This has been studied for years, some can hear about it, then need to see it before they try it. Others just do it and then watch or hear about what they did. Each person is unique on their style of learning based on how their brain functions.

Other factors on precision is based on a person's situational awareness, if they understand what is going on with what they are doing and WHY it occurs, then they will have a better understanding on being more precise. Gawd, this schooling that I am doing is turning me from a redneck into a nerd...
 
How many machining concerns in this world are called "so-and-so precision engineering" (I bid many), and how many are called "so-and-so perfection engineering" (I bid none).

What Ray C says about equipment is true. I don't know what equipment you have but, check that your expectations recently are not above what can reasonably expected from your equipment. This may involve a study of what you have.

The old cliché that "a bad workman always blames his tools" is only true when the workman would do bad even with a good tool.
On the flip-side, a good workman can often use an inferior tool and get away with what is tantamount to murder.

Some of being a good machinist is knowing what you are working with and knowing your own capabilities. Then you can choose attainable projects and sometimes even adapt the seemingly unattainable ones to suit you and your shop.

All the best, and enjoy.
 
My Grandfather used to always say "a good machinist never blames his tools". And I think a similar quote has been posted in this thread. My phrase is

"Know your limit....work within it". For me the most frustrating thing is to do all the things that I am doing right and have the results not meet my expectations... and I don't know why. However if I do know why the results are perhaps functional, but not aesthetically appealing I am ok. E.g. I have a crappy scissors type knurling tool for my Atlas 618 QCTP holder that has a lot of compliance in the arms.. i.e they wobble around. When I am making a thumb screw and want a friction section I will use the knurling tool with no regard to diameter to the work piece or the knurl rolls. Some times I luck out and they look great .. other times well not so much.. But I know WHY, and it doesn't bother me.

Keep at it.

David
 
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