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Originally Posted by jim rozen
Funny dave sobel never said anything about a hammer.
As far as putting the new one on, gentle would be a long piece of 3/8 inch
all-thread and a block with hole, on each end of the spindle. Then just
wrench it into place.
I like the modified puller jaws though. But they do bear on the tips of the
gear teeth, go gentle with that.
Jim
I don't know how anyone could do it without a hammer. I'm considered fairly strong for an old man and I had to whack it real good to get it off!
What about making some sort of a drawbar with the threaded rod, steel plate and nut that I can use to slowly force the extended sleeve gear on without spoiling anything?
Thumbz
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- 02-22-2009, 08:20 PM#22
AllThumbzGuest
Originally Posted by piniongear
This is a prime example of not using the proper tools so thanks for the post.
To any of you out there needing to do the same thing. Use a puller!........ pg
pg,
I'm no paper tiger when it comes to TRYING....so I gave it a shot, then posted it to show everyone to GET THE PULLER. I will be getting one myself ASAP for future use.
The damage isn't irreparable I don't think, and there are new spindles available (thank goodness they arent made out of unobtainium yet), though it is a lesson for all of us to be prepared and use the right equipment.
The other day, I had a Burke #4 mill delivered to my house. The deliveryguy had a huge look of relief on his face when I rolled the engine crane up to his truck. We slung the overarm and lifted it right off in 5 minutes in the pouring frozen rain and snow. Thank goodness I had the right equipment that time!
Thumbz (Nelson)Reply With Quote - 02-22-2009, 09:52 PM#23
piniongear
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AllThumbz...........
Sorry if my post did not sound like it, but I was commending you for posting the way you took it off.
I knew you were saying.....'Don't do it this way.'
The ground off puller jaws do not affect the gear in the least. We have used this same puller to remove the gear several times now. The fit is a nice snug-slide fit on the spindle.
I cannot find my Heavy 10 paperwork right now, but I am also certain South Bend tells you the end gear can be installed with a hammer. block of wood, and then a pipe sleeve to seat the gear all the way on.
The bull gear is another matter though. It is a very tight fit on the spindle.
That is why I say use a press to remove and install it back on......... pg
Reply With Quote - 02-22-2009, 10:03 PM#24
AllThumbzGuest
Shopping list...
Horrible Freight:
12T Bench Press
3 jaw puller
Won't use them often, but when I do, they will prevent the damage in my posts.
ThumbzReply With Quote - 02-22-2009, 10:18 PM#25
piniongear
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Join DateJun 2006LocationHouston TexasPosts1,534Post Thanks / LikeLikes (Given)0Likes (Received)38
Won't use them often,
You may be surprised! I once thought I would not use a press very often either, before I had the HF that is.
Since then, I wonder how I did without this $129 tool for so long before buying one.
I am amazed how many times this tool is used.
My latest use is to push plugs into forms to make formed items out of aluminum plate.
Use it to hold parts together for welding.
Press lathe made parts together for tight fits etc, etc,etc......... pgReply With Quote
- 02-22-2009, 10:25 PM#26
Flute Maker
Cast Iron
Join DateFeb 2007LocationNeedham, MAPosts368Post Thanks / LikeLikes (Given)19Likes (Received)13
For over two weeks I've been pouring over threads regarding the removal and disassembly of SB spindles. I'm putting on a lever collet closer, (thanks Ferrous Antiquos), including changing out that nasty gear everyone writes about. We also have clogged drain holes in the front bearing area that we would not have understood without this forum! Now I have learned of the brass clips that are installed in some of the drain back holes, and that there is a brass tube liner for the oil wick that should be found raised so as to catch a hole in the bearing I guess. It's an amazing body of information that should be a compiled somewhere.
My parts maker / toolmaker / put the new gear on, after using the: "back the split ring out against the gear to make room for the screw drivers" approach, and re-assembled the head, without my telling him to, because he had a bad experience tearing down a South Bend before and thought it prudent to not go any further! I'm very upset with him.
We'll get a puller this week, and remove the new gear, then remove the spindle and flush out the oil runs.
My only question, and concern is that we did not measure the run out before removing the bearing caps. The caps each have shims on only one side. That being the operator side.
Has anyone found that to be common?? Thanks for reading my volume.
Humbly,
Payson.Reply With Quote - 02-22-2009, 11:02 PM#27
piniongear
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My only question, and concern is that we did not measure the run out before removing the bearing caps. The caps each have shims on only one side. That being the operator side.
Has anyone found that to be common?? Thanks for reading my volume.
Payson.
Hope that both bushings for the wicks stick up just a little to catch the hole in the bearing. It makes locating the bearing(s) correctly much easier when they do.
My friend's Heavy 10 has only the left oil bushing sticking up. The right wick bushing is pressed down flat with the casting and getting the bearing's oil hole lined up over the wick is difficult, to say the very least!
As far as the runout, don't worry about what it was. That is history now.
You will have to shim to get the correct deflection on both bearings.
There is a procedure to follow for the shimming and I assume you have that in front of you since you have already taken the spindle out.
If not, then get a copy of it.
The shims are laminated in layers.
There will be equal thickness of shims on both sides of the bearing caps, so if (presently) one side has shims and the other side does not, then that is wrong!
Both caps need equal thickness of shim packs on each side (within .0005 difference between them).
Correct this when you do the re-install of the spindle and shim it for proper clearance........... pgReply With Quote - 02-22-2009, 11:30 PM#28
Flute Maker
Cast Iron
Join DateFeb 2007LocationNeedham, MAPosts368Post Thanks / LikeLikes (Given)19Likes (Received)13
I have not physically removed the spindle yet. Everything was ready before that guy put it back together again.
Thinking about the wick tubes, doesen't the expander on the cap hold the bearing in the correct orientation too? Who are the resources for the shim packs?
PaysonReply With Quote - 02-23-2009, 12:01 AM#29
piniongear
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Originally Posted by Flute Maker
I have not physically removed the spindle yet. Everything was ready before that guy put it back together again.
Thinking about the wick tubes, doesen't the expander on the cap hold the bearing in the correct orientation too? Who are the resources for the shim packs?
Payson
The expanders do somewhat locate the bearings over the oil wicks but there is a lot of play in the location before the expander is drawn up into the slot in the bearing. It is just easier to have the bushings stick up just enough to catch the hole in the bearing, especially when it comes to left/right hand positioning of the bearing. That is where we had the greatest difficulty.
Whatever your machine has is what you will have to work with.
Shim packs are available from LeBlond, although they may be quite expensive compared to other sources.
My friend bought his shim packs local and I believe he has bought them from MSC as well.
I am sure a member here will have the best source for them.
So let's hear someone post on that.............. pgReply With Quote
- 02-23-2009, 12:12 AM#30
jim rozen
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Nelson I would say your spindle is still fine. My approach would be to stone the
high spots off the end where they were raised up and call it a day. Keep the
bearings and journals clean from any of the residue of this operation however!
You and I are saying the same thing about making a draw-in fixture for the new
longer gear. Basically just a piece of all-thread that goes all the way though the
spindle, and two flat plates with holes in them to pass the threaded rod, so it
pull it all together.
In this photo you can see my all-purpose squeezer-upper, here it was being used
to pull a bearing into place in an elgin headstock. Sometimes it has some oak
pieces on the ends, sometimes a nylon block, here a sturmey archer bike hub
was just the right size to hit the OD of the bearing:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/BB59_4.jpg
You could hammer the gear on with a soft hammer, but the steady gentle
draw in of the threaded rod puller is very nice.
JimReply With Quote - 02-23-2009, 12:44 PM#31
AllThumbzGuest
What size 3 jaw puller?
Originally Posted by piniongear
Won't use them often,
You may be surprised! I once thought I would not use a press very often either, before I had the HF that is.
Since then, I wonder how I did without this $129 tool for so long before buying one.
I am amazed how many times this tool is used.
My latest use is to push plugs into forms to make formed items out of aluminum plate.
Use it to hold parts together for welding.
Press lathe made parts together for tight fits etc, etc,etc......... pg
pg, I am sure you are right, I will end up wondering how I ever got along without it!
Question: Enco has many size 3 jaw pullers....what size do you guys recommend for what we need to do? 3-1/4" ok or larger (price increases as you go up)
TIA
ThumbzReply With Quote - 02-23-2009, 12:48 PM#32
AllThumbzGuest
Originally Posted by jim rozen
Nelson I would say your spindle is still fine. My approach would be to stone the
high spots off the end where they were raised up and call it a day. Keep the
bearings and journals clean from any of the residue of this operation however!
You and I are saying the same thing about making a draw-in fixture for the new
longer gear. Basically just a piece of all-thread that goes all the way though the
spindle, and two flat plates with holes in them to pass the threaded rod, so it
pull it all together.
In this photo you can see my all-purpose squeezer-upper, here it was being used
to pull a bearing into place in an elgin headstock. Sometimes it has some oak
pieces on the ends, sometimes a nylon block, here a sturmey archer bike hub
was just the right size to hit the OD of the bearing:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/BB59_4.jpg
You could hammer the gear on with a soft hammer, but the steady gentle
draw in of the threaded rod puller is very nice.
Jim
Great advice Jim! I will do just that- stone it smooth and burnished, then I will go to HD, pick up some threaded 3/8, some steel plates, and create the draw-in jig you show.
Any tips on lining the gear up with the keyway such as using a caliper as a guide, or do you just eyeball it and then if you are off reverse the setup, pop the gear off and try again?
Thumbz
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