New ACRA 1440C lathe with Mark Jacobs VFD

[ddickey]

Nothing today. Just wanted a nice rigid machine. Will probably never buy another mill in my lifetime.
@mksj I had Tom offered a 5hp Baldor that I went with so no 7.5hp.

 

[ArmyDoc]

I got lucky, Tom at ACRA shipped mine like this.

I dont recall seeing a thread on your experiences with this. If you posted one, can you post a link? If you haven't posted such a thread...
You should know that we are prepared to forgive you. But only if you rectify that aggregious omission immediately.

Ah HA! I found it! All is forgiven.

The ACRA has landed

ACRA 9 X 50 3ph VFD, AC inverter DP 700 DRO, 3 axis power feed, quill power feed, and power draw bar. The machine is in it's spot, now to levitate it off the pallet :rolleyes: The new owner of the G0755 needs to come pick up his machine...

www.hobby-machinist.com

 

[Beckerkumm]

I'd take the Baldor too. My old motor guy says they are still the pick of the litter in the small motor world and 7.5 is a lot for a J head type machine. Looking forward to a review. I believe your mill is slightly a heavier version of my Sharp ( First ) VH25 and maybe closer to the VH3. Will be interesting to see the differences. Dave

 

[Tipton1965]

Beautiful!
It’s interesting to note, this lathe has head stock controls exactly the same as my 1970‘s Clausing Colchester 15 X 50.

Just saw a Clausing on Facebook marketplace. Yeah the controls are very similar.

 

[SD Crane man]

I had suggested looking at the Acra 1440C VFD version but it was around twice the cost vs. building a VFD a system. Both use a Yaskawa drives and are relay based control systems, there are more features with the system that I built for him vs. the factory version (it uses a 2 speed headstock gearbox, the manual is 8 speed). The factory VFD uses a larger electrical cabinet with the VFD built in vs. an external cabinet to house the VFD, power supply, braking resistor, fusing/breaker and disconnect switch. We went with the Yaskawa GA500 which is one of the few native single phase input 5 Hp VFD's, the factory version uses a 10 Hp VFD in derated mode so can be wired to single phase or 3 phase input. We could have gone that route but it was an additional expense and the intent was to wire it for single phase input.

Overall was a very clean install, and the VFD cabinet needed to be a bit larger to house the massive VFD. The GA500 also is a bit different in that it uses all pin connectors for the wiring, they did away with screw and spade/ring connectors on this model. The switch gear used on this build is all made by Idec except the jog joystick, the quality of the switch gear, speed pot, etc. I would rate as much better than stock.

​

Mark,
I recently bought an Acra ATL-1660TE from a guy down in Chula Vista (I'm in Bonita) anyway I have been stalking some of the VFD posts here on HM to learn what I could, as well I spoke to Bud (BladesIIB) the 1440 he has shares the same motor as my machine. My question is would this be a sensible choice for my machine?

Yaskawa VFD GA500 Drive 5Hp – 7.5Hp GA50U2021ABA 240V​

I'm going to pull out all of the original contractors and replace them with relays, and pretty much follow what you have help others do.
Thanks in advance for any advice you can lend me.
Regards,
George

 

[mksj]

Hi George,

The GA50U2021ABA will not work for single phase input, you need to look at the motor 3 phase amps (14A) and the VFD output amps in HD mode, three phase input VFD's need to be derated by a factor of 1.7-2.0. I am working with another individual with the 1640TL and ended up with the GA50U2042ABA which is a beast of a VFD. Depending on the model, they are either very wide or the higher amp units are tall, so they require a sizable enclosure. I like the Yaskawa GA500 VFD's, they are a replacement for the V1000, they work very well and are one of the most commonly installed factory VFD's in manual lathes and mills. GA500 is easy to program via USB/software.

These two would be my recommendations:
GA50UB018ABA 1/PH 240V 5.0 HP 17.6 AMPS HD, this is a native single phase input VFD

YASKAWA GA500 INDUSTRIAL AC MICRODRIVE MODEL# GA50UB018ABA 1/PH 240V 5.0 HP 17.6 AMPS ND

STOCK IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE. THIS PRODUCT HAS EXTENDED LEAD TIMES, CONTACT US FOR ESTIMATED AVAILABILITY DATE.

prbelectronics.com

GA50U2030ABA 3/PH 240V 10/7.5 HP 25 AMPS HD, single phase input in derated mode ~14.2A HD

YASKAWA GA500 INDUSTRIAL AC MICRODRIVE MODEL# GA50U2030ABA 3/PH 240V 10 HP 30 AMPS ND 25 AMPS HD – IN STOCK AVAILABLE NOW

AVAILABLE NOW

prbelectronics.com

 

[SD Crane man]

I had suggested looking at the Acra 1440C VFD version but it was around twice the cost vs. building a VFD a system. Both use a Yaskawa drives and are relay based control systems, there are more features with the system that I built for him vs. the factory version (it uses a 2 speed headstock gearbox, the manual is 8 speed). The factory VFD uses a larger electrical cabinet with the VFD built in vs. an external cabinet to house the VFD, power supply, braking resistor, fusing/breaker and disconnect switch. We went with the Yaskawa GA500 which is one of the few native single phase input 5 Hp VFD's, the factory version uses a 10 Hp VFD in derated mode so can be wired to single phase or 3 phase input. We could have gone that route but it was an additional expense and the intent was to wire it for single phase input.

Overall was a very clean install, and the VFD cabinet needed to be a bit larger to house the massive VFD. The GA500 also is a bit different in that it uses all pin connectors for the wiring, they did away with screw and spade/ring connectors on this model. The switch gear used on this build is all made by Idec except the jog joystick, the quality of the switch gear, speed pot, etc. I would rate as much better than stock.

I had suggested looking at the Acra 1440C VFD version but it was around twice the cost vs. building a VFD a system. Both use a Yaskawa drives and are relay based control systems, there are more features with the system that I built for him vs. the factory version (it uses a 2 speed headstock gearbox, the manual is 8 speed). The factory VFD uses a larger electrical cabinet with the VFD built in vs. an external cabinet to house the VFD, power supply, braking resistor, fusing/breaker and disconnect switch. We went with the Yaskawa GA500 which is one of the few native single phase input 5 Hp VFD's, the factory version uses a 10 Hp VFD in derated mode so can be wired to single phase or 3 phase input. We could have gone that route but it was an additional expense and the intent was to wire it for single phase input.

Overall was a very clean install, and the VFD cabinet needed to be a bit larger to house the massive VFD. The GA500 also is a bit different in that it uses all pin connectors for the wiring, they did away with screw and spade/ring connectors on this model. The switch gear used on this build is all made by Idec except the jog joystick, the quality of the switch gear, speed pot, etc. I would rate as much better than stock.

Hi George,

The GA50U2021ABA will not work for single phase input, you need to look at the motor 3 phase amps (14A) and the VFD output amps in HD mode, three phase input VFD's need to be derated by a factor of 1.7-2.0. I am working with another individual with the 1640TL and ended up with the GA50U2042ABA which is a beast of a VFD. Depending on the model, they are either very wide or the higher amp units are tall, so they require a sizable enclosure. I like the Yaskawa GA500 VFD's, they are a replacement for the V1000, they work very well and are one of the most commonly installed factory VFD's in manual lathes and mills. GA500 is easy to program via USB/software.

These two would be my recommendations:
GA50UB018ABA 1/PH 240V 5.0 HP 17.6 AMPS HD, this is a native single phase input VFD

YASKAWA GA500 INDUSTRIAL AC MICRODRIVE MODEL# GA50UB018ABA 1/PH 240V 5.0 HP 17.6 AMPS ND

STOCK IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE. THIS PRODUCT HAS EXTENDED LEAD TIMES, CONTACT US FOR ESTIMATED AVAILABILITY DATE.

prbelectronics.com

GA50U2030ABA 3/PH 240V 10/7.5 HP 25 AMPS HD, single phase input in derated mode ~14.2A HD

YASKAWA GA500 INDUSTRIAL AC MICRODRIVE MODEL# GA50U2030ABA 3/PH 240V 10 HP 30 AMPS ND 25 AMPS HD – IN STOCK AVAILABLE NOW

AVAILABLE NOW

prbelectronics.com

Mark,
Thank you for your response. My instinct is to go with the 7.5 HP model, it appears the amp draw is a little less if I understand the description correctly. Would there be any compelling reason to use one over the other? Also, is this the appropriate place to have this discussion. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive to this, but I don't want to make any waves here.
Thanks,
George

 

[mksj]

If you are only going to be using the lathe on single phase than the GA50UB018ABA is designed for that. The GA50U2030ABA is designed for 3 phase input but can be used in a derated mode with single phase input. The amps are the output amps that the VFD can deliver to the motor at a continuous rating in heavy duty mode which is usually what I specify for a lathe. Cost wise they are about the same.

On the input side both VFD's should draw approximately the same current for a given motor output, but there are difference in the NEC specifications as to minimum breaker size and wiring which is 125% of their rated input current regardless of what the output current is. I am not aware of any guidance as to NEC wiring specifications of a 3 phase input VFD running off of single phase, but Fuji drives indicates the fusing is the same, you just use 2 input poles for single phase vs. 3 and the fuse size is unchanged. When installing a 3 phase VFD running in derated mode, I often wire/fuse all 3 phases, and connect single phase to L1 and L2. Wiring on the motor side needs to support a current of 125% of the motor FLA. If you do a build post I would start a new thread, but this discussion is appropriate as to VFD's that would be an alternative for this build.

 

[SD Crane man]

If you are only going to be using the lathe on single phase than the GA50UB018ABA is designed for that. The GA50U2030ABA is designed for 3 phase input but can be used in a derated mode with single phase input. The amps are the output amps that the VFD can deliver to the motor at a continuous rating in heavy duty mode which is usually what I specify for a lathe. Cost wise they are about the same.

On the input side both VFD's should draw approximately the same current for a given motor output, but there are difference in the NEC specifications as to minimum breaker size and wiring which is 125% of their rated input current regardless of what the output current is. I am not aware of any guidance as to NEC wiring specifications of a 3 phase input VFD running off of single phase, but Fuji drives indicates the fusing is the same, you just use 2 input poles for single phase vs. 3 and the fuse size is unchanged. When installing a 3 phase VFD running in derated mode, I often wire/fuse all 3 phases, and connect single phase to L1 and L2. Wiring on the motor side needs to support a current of 125% of the motor FLA. If you do a build post I would start a new thread, but this discussion is appropriate as to VFD's that would be an alternative for this build.

Thanks again Mark.
I searched today, both are in short supply it seems. Covid, no chips, back ordered etc. I did find both at RSP Supply. As you said, the cost difference doesn't amount to much.I think I'm going to use the 2030ABA. I'm scratchin for a reason to use one over the other, but the ability to use 3 phase input would perhaps open it up to more opportunity if I ever decided to sell it. Assuming the performance characteristics are the same?

 

[mksj]

Technically for single phase input the GA50UB018AB is a better rated VFD looking at the output amps. To some degree it comes down to your motor amps. The GA50U2030ABA should work well, but probably would benefit from a DC choke (25A-32A). In my lathe with a 3 Hp motor I run a Yaskawa V1000 3 phase CIMR-VU2A0020FAA VFD which has an output of 19.6A and in derated mode for single phase input it is rated at~11.5A, with a 18A DC buss choke, and it can be run off of single or 3 phase. My motor pulls 8.3A, so I have plenty of headroom, which is not the case with the GA50U2030ABA and a 5 Hp motor pulling 14 or more Amps. It will work, since you rarely pull full motor amps, but I would probably us a DC choke and/or dial down the overload point to 130% instead of 150%. MTE makes DC buss chokes (DCA002504, DCA002504, DCA003201, DCA003202) that are readily available, but additional cost and space in the VFD cabinet.

MTE DCA003201 DC Link Choke 0.85mH, 32ADC, 1000VDC MAX - NEW | eBay

These services include NO VERBAL CONFIRMATION WILL BE GIVEN, THIS MUST BE IN WRITING. Item is sold as pictured.

www.ebay.com