Nelson goes back to school- is it worthwhile?

HMF

HMF

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I was going to post this in our Machinists on Long Island (MOLI) forum, which is for those of us in the LI area (it is a hidden forum, which is why most of you don't see it),
but felt I might get more opinions asking publicly.

So I went to an open house at Suffolk Community College last night to check out their Fundamental Machining Processes class. The traffic into Long Island was horrid
and it took well over 1 hour to get there. If you ever drove in NY, you will know what I mean.

They are the last community college in this area (a one hour drive from me and two counties east on Long Island) that gives any machinist classes.
This is a 74 hour class, covering everything from blueprint reading, manual machining, CNC introduction (Master-Cam), measurements and shop safety.

The problem is that the MANUAL machining section involves the use of a small Sherline mill and lathe and is only 24 hours of training on those.

The course is cheap- $100- it is underwritten by the US Government, so cost is not a problem.

Question- Is it worth it to drive out there since the manual training is only on the Sherline (this is how they limit liability- teaching on mini-machines).

What do you guys think? If you think it may be worthwhile, I will take it and do the drive twice a week.

Thanks!


Nelson
 
Bill:

I should mention that they intend to cover the BASICS of CNC, just the basics. That is something I would like to try at some point, but, again, it seems rather tangential.
They also will work with CAD- something else I know nothing about.

It is always good to see things done for real, which is why I wish we had an active machinist group or mentoring group around here.
It is a heck of a drive 2x week after work.


Nelson
 
Bill,

It is also a pre-requisite for more advanced CNC courses, and they do offer one, as well as a certificate course in Welding, which I would like to learn.

Yes, much of the manual stuff will be basic, on a Sherline lathe and mill, and hence non-translateable to a larger lathe.

The CNC stuff is taught on another mini-mill from what I understand.
These colleges disgarded their South Bend and Bridgeports, and sold them on Ebay and elsewhere, so now they don't have them to teach on.

Will I get to know the professor and approach him to teach a course in our area if I can get 10 guys together to make it worth his while? You bet I will.

Will I ask if we can use the college for a meeting place for a local machinists group? You bet I will.

So there are other reasons for me to drive out there twice a week also.

Nelson
 
Hi Nelson,

Don't know who you spoke with or where but....

You may want to call a Mr. Ali Laderian at 631-851-6418 with any questions.

He is head Professor in the Manufacturing Technology center at the SCCC Brentwood campus.

I was in that shop earlier this summer taking a Haas CNC G-Code programming class.

It is across the parking lot from the Sally Ann Slacke Center, where they USED to have the program housed. When the program was in SASC, they did use Sherlines. I toured their program as part of LIMWS in Feb of 2009, and it was not in it's new building yet and yes it was a bunch of Sherlines then.

The machine shop is a newly built facility that came on-line less than a year ago.

What I saw this Summer in the new building was lots of Jet 13x40 size manual lathes, and Bridgeport-clone import manual mills.

I also saw the CNC side of the shop where they had ALL brand new HAAS lathes and mills. A LOT of them.
There were about half dozen each Haas Toolroom Mills and Toolroom Lathes, and a VF2 Vertical Milling Center and an SL20 Lathe. Might have been a palletized Drill/Tap machine there too if I recall.

All the Sherline stuff was gone from that shop, as far as I know. However, Sherline WAS what they used to teach on, so maybe you got old info? Or maybe you're looking at a special beginner's program that still uses just the Sherlines? I don't know for sure, but they do have a LOT of other large machines in the new machine shop over there, both manual and CNC.

One way to tell is if your class could still be just Sherlines, is if it's held in Sally Ann Slacke, then it probably is.

As far as the program itself, I think you are probably way beyond that point in your knowledge already, but you might learn a trick or two from the instructor, meet some new people, experience a few new ideas, and you never know where things like that can lead you. Sitting at home never opens new doors.

Good luck, I know it's a tough decision for you.

Contact me off-list or call me at the shop if you want to talk some more.
1-631-589-1510

PaulS
 
Nelson

I learned metal working in high school, we had a couple of lathes, welding and forging equipment in the school at the time. We did not get much turning in, but at least it was enough to get me started.

I majored in Electronics in those days but ran into cash and calculus problems in tech school, so took a semester off to sort things out. I ended up signing up for a welding class. When I finished the welding class, I was looking to get work and ended up applying to three newspaper ads, one for a welder, one for a fitter and the other for a toolroom attendant. All three ads were box numbers, which generally I do not like applying to, but I did. I got hired on with this old German master for the tool room position. Turns out that all three resumes ended up on the same desk, he hired me for the lowest paying of the three, but was not long before I was welding, fitting, keeping the ironworker wired together, and doing just about any job in the place, the welders came and went as did the fitters, but I had a job no matter what. Never a fear of layoff as there was always something to do for the lowly maintenance guy.

While there, one of gents I was introduced to ran a small tool repair shop and he started getting me to help him with his "overload"

During that time, I found a Craftsman 109 6"x12" metal lathe, which I cleaned up, made a stand for it and started learning how to do machining on a lathe. Yup I had had the basics a number of years before, but never any real practice. I will attest to the fact that what i learned on that little 6x12 is the same techniques as what i use today on my 14x40. Yup, I had to take lighter cuts and took longer to get there, but the basics are just that, the basics!

If there is a community college course offered, and i was in your shoes, I would not hesitate to take it. Yes they use smaller machines, even the CNC is a smaller machine, but the skills you learn will be directly transferable to the machines you already have.

Blue print reading, measuring, basic layout and job planning are a major part of our hobby as well. Very valuable skills.

If you get into the class, show initiative and an eagerness to learn, and if the instructor is any good, he will take your skill levels and build upon them from where you are now. Remember, as I believe you are mostly self taught, you will have a few bad habits , like all of us do that may need to be unlearned.

After I had been at that job a number of years, it was then that I went back to school for my millwright training, which included a section on machine shop training. By then I had already upgraded my lathe to the Logan 9x28. I remember the instructor coming to me one day with a box of starter armatures and asked me to go and turn them. I said sorry but I could not as I had not been checked out on the lathes part of the course, so I was not allowed to turn on the machines yet. He just told me to shut up and go do them, knowing full well, I had already had lots of experience with my own machines. I agreed that I would deal with them the next day, which allowed me to bring in my Jacobs armature chuck for turning shafts that did not have centre holes in them. I still have that chuck, but prefer the bison ball bearing 3 jaw rotating chuck. I spent a good chunk of my time in this course tutoring other students.

I have for the last couple of years been thinking heavily on going to the local college here in Nelson, which has good trades programs and doing some upgrading myself, especially the welding course to refresh some of the skills I may have forgotten.

As for you, yes it is a long drive, but then it is about a 30 minute drive for me to get to the college, I really think that you would benefit greatly form taking the course. Also it would give you a chance to "network" with others in your area that have similar interests. Who knows, maybe a neighbour from just down the street will be taking the course as well.

Walter
 
Pauls77 link=topic=3316.msg23898#msg23898 date=1314806764 said:
Hi Nelson,

Don't know who you spoke with or where but....

You may want to call a Mr. Ali Laderian at 631-851-6418 with any questions.

He is head Professor in the Manufacturing Technology center at the SCCC Brentwood campus.

I was in that shop earlier this summer taking a Haas CNC G-Code programming class.

It is across the parking lot from the Sally Ann Slacke Center, where they USED to have the program housed. When the program was in SASC, they did use Sherlines. I toured their program as part of LIMWS in Feb of 2009, and it was not in it's new building yet and yes it was a bunch of Sherlines then.

The machine shop is a newly built facility that came on-line less than a year ago.

What I saw this Summer in the new building was lots of Jet 13x40 size manual lathes, and Bridgeport-clone import manual mills.

I also saw the CNC side of the shop where they had ALL brand new HAAS lathes and mills. A LOT of them.
There were about half dozen each Haas Toolroom Mills and Toolroom Lathes, and a VF2 Vertical Milling Center and an SL20 Lathe. Might have been a palletized Drill/Tap machine there too if I recall.

All the Sherline stuff was gone from that shop, as far as I know. However, Sherline WAS what they used to teach on, so maybe you got old info? Or maybe you're looking at a special beginner's program that still uses just the Sherlines? I don't know for sure, but they do have a LOT of other large machines in the new machine shop over there, both manual and CNC.

One way to tell is if your class could still be just Sherlines, is if it's held in Sally Ann Slacke, then it probably is.

As far as the program itself, I think you are probably way beyond that point in your knowledge already, but you might learn a trick or two from the instructor, meet some new people, experience a few new ideas, and you never know where things like that can lead you. Sitting at home never opens new doors.

Good luck, I know it's a tough decision for you.

Contact me off-list or call me at the shop if you want to talk some more.
1-631-589-1510

PaulS
Click to expand...

Holy cow Paul- thanks for the info! If they are using Jets and import clones, then it's an easy decision for me- I will definitely take it.

The open house yesterday was in the Sally Ann Slacke Center of the Manufacturing Technology center at the SCCC Brentwood campus. The guy giving the talk was Mike Whelan, who told me he is a part timer there. He said the program would be in the Technology Center across the way. He showed a powerpoint showing Sherlines. I was deeply disappointed.

I see the G-Code programming class listed. They also have a Master-Cam class. The Basic Class is a prerequisite.

So either this is a special basic program, or the speaker was showing outdated slides. If I take the basic, they will let me take the one where they use the Jets and BP Clones. If they use the Jets now, great, either way I win.

I will call Mr. Laderian.

That was great news (about the new machines). I would be happy to pay more and drive out there to learn on them.

Thanks again!


Nelson
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Walter-

You guys have convinced me to take it. That is why I asked and it was very helpful to get everyone's read on it, for which I thank all you guys.

From what Paul says, they have larger Jets and BP clones. Doing what you said (showing willingness and doing my work) will allow me to take the more advanced courses that utilize those. You have to start somewhere.

I will verify what this course will use, using Paul's information, and make the trip.
It's about time I educated myself, and stopped being a newbie.

Nelson
 
Nelson,
A little bit more education never hurts.

At 33 years of age I went back to community college over 3 years in the evening and it changed my life.As a tradesman with 15 years in the trade behind me I thought I just about knew it all. After my night courses I took high end Govt.Education department correspondence courses for 4 years. As a result of the post trade welding Code level, I studied and passed it led to an offer that had me me going to a Teacher Training Colledge for Trade Colledge teachers.

I was fortunate to teach in a Trade College that catered for the oil industry welders training.I started my night course training in 1986 and never looked back .I have only just retired and never regretted a minute of it.

Sure its a little bit wearisome traveling to and fro and studying after work but just learning those little bits and pieces really put the icing on the cake for me as fabricator pressure welder in the Alumina industry at the time..To understand some of the theory behind why an operation or process is performed in a certain way really puts you wayout in front on the shop floor.

Do it mate, it will make a difference.

Ozwelder
 
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